Episode 1613: Talking Space Retrospective, Part 1

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No, Mark is just like our calm, steady podcast dad.

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The voice of reason. What was that show? Do you remember?

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What is the name? Mr. Feeney? He's like our Mr. Feeney from like Boy Meets World.

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We still have some holdings on their own walk. We still have some holdings on their own walk.

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We still have some good dentists here. We still have one more film for man. On to die a plane for man.

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Music.

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We'll be right back.

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Good evening, everyone. My name is Larry Herron, and this is Talking Space.

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It's Sunday, September 24th, 2023.

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And right up front, I wanted to let our listeners know that tonight is a special

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night for us here at Talking Space.

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Tonight, we're going to talk about ourselves. And by ourselves, I mean Gene Mikulka.

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How are you doing, Gene? Happy birthday to me.

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Happy birthday to you. Mark Ratterman was also joining us. Mark?

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How you doing? Hey, everybody.

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And also, Sawyer Rosenstein, good evening, Sawyer.

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Good evening. Happy birthday, Gene, and happy birthday, Talking Space,

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this past 9-9, 23, 14 years old and counting. Indeed.

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Indeed. And last but certainly not least, Dr. Kat Robison. How are you doing,

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Kat? Good to hear your voice again.

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Yeah, happy to be here. Hello, everyone from the future.

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Yes. We are happy to have you, Kat. Yeah, we probably won't be airing this episode

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for a little while, so you won't hear it in the usual order in which it was

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recorded, but that's okay.

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Tonight, we're going to talk about ourselves. Like I said, here we are,

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our whole current team all together again on the same podcast for the first

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time in a long time against a backdrop of current events in the world of spaceflight

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that never stops or hardly ever even slows down for anybody.

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What with SpaceX's challenges getting approved for the second test flight of Starship,

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even while it's setting records every year for numbers of launches and annual

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tonnage lofted to orbit,

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and even with dozens of other private commercial aerospace companies and their

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support in manufacturer universes, it's all so much that it's almost impossible

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to keep track of it all anymore.

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And yet, here we have a group of people who have been trying to do just that,

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to make sense of it all for our listeners.

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And for how long? How long have we been doing this now?

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We started in 09, 09, 09. So over 14 years, 2024 will mark our 15th year of putting out episodes.

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That's pretty awesome. Hey, gang, remember way back when everybody was asking

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us after the shuttle program ended, gee, what are you going to talk about?

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Yeah, I think now there's almost too much to talk about. Exactly.

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Yeah, for sure. So speaking of talking about all this stuff, you started on 090909.

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And whose idea was this in the first place? How did this all get started?

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How did Talking Space begin?

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I'll raise my hand for that one, I guess. There's a bunch of ways I could approach this question.

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And I can give you either the history or just how it sort of spontaneously combusted.

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Because it really took a lot of stars to kind of come together.

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It was an idea I had way back when in the beginning of podcasting.

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I guess this was around 2006, 2007, when iTunes started putting podcasts out

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there for people to download. And there was a bunch of really good ones over there.

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There were pretty kind of sad ones out there, too.

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But for the most part, there were some really good ones. And you can name the topic. It was out there.

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And there was some great astronomy stuff out there, too. But I could not find

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a specific podcast that I really wanted to hear.

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And there were a few shows kind of dancing around it, but they weren't exactly what I wanted.

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The concept I was looking for was spaceflight meets, I guess,

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meet the press or face the nation or something like that, where you have not

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just one person, but a team of people.

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Kind of looking at spaceflight and trying to put some context around what was

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being said or what was going on out there.

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And also offering maybe some opinion every now and again as far as what was going on.

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And gosh darn it, I was looking for it and I couldn't find it.

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So I thought, gee, why can't I do that?

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And I said, well, okay. So I committed to doing it. And I shopped the idea around

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to the local planetarium here that I used to work for.

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And they didn't know what a podcast was. Mind you, remember, this is 2006.

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And I actually put the idea forward to the local NSS chapter here in New Jersey,

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who they were faltering at the time. And unfortunately, they collapsed.

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So the idea kind of sat on the shelf. And oddly enough, the folks that lit this

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thing up again was NASA themselves with how they got onto social media.

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And, you know, everybody knows a story that everybody listening to this show

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knows a story about PAO Veronica McGregor over at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory,

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how she took the Mars Phoenix lander and created a Twitter account for it and really,

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really put a human face on the lander and on the mission through through that account.

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And she experimented with social media and saw how it was going.

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And the Morris Phoenix account was a super success, so much so that she moved

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it to creating a NASA tweet up, if you will, the very first one over at JPL.

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And that one also went very well. Tweet ups were starting to spontaneously combust all over the place.

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And these things were just like minded people getting together.

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So it was really that hotbed,

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that got the people I needed together to bring the show up.

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And it finally came to a head, I guess it was during the launch attempts for STS-127.

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If anybody remembers how that launch went, I think if they had to try it about

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maybe eight or nine times, I might be wrong on the amount, but it was a long

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amount of launch attempts.

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And the reason was because you were trying to launch a space shuttle in the middle of the summer.

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I think this was July of 2009, and a lot of the press were getting a little

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ragged and so on, and they were saying, do we really need all these launch rules and all that?

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We kept on hearing during the post-launch press conference, and there were a

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group of us on Twitter going, what, do you guys remember a little thing called SES-107?

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Rules were there for a reason, and again, I understood the reason why the press,

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they were getting kind of cranky and all that, but you've got to remember,

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too, all of these launch rules are there for a reason.

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But a lot of people, our little merry band, I think there was like five of us

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during this thing, watching this thing on Twitter, kind of live tweeting it

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and talking about what was going on.

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We were like, what the devil do we do to go ahead and try to combat this?

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Basically, a lot of what we felt was a lot of not exactly misinformation,

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but still, you know, kind of not understanding why the rules were there.

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And that's when I pulled the idea off the shelf. I said, well,

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I've had this podcast idea for some time.

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And everybody just said, oh, yeah, let's do that.

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And it got onto a bulletin board, the idea where I said, okay, fine.

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I was going to go ahead and try to get this thing off the ground and was looking

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for victims, I mean, volunteers,

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to embark on this little journey that I decided to launch.

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And I was just flat out darn lucky in plain English.

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That i got the personalities that i

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got because i i and i

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i couldn't i couldn't see a better crew to

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do this with and and we've been doing this now for what 14

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years so i was just darn lucky to grab the people that i did now it in the process

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of that i it took me a little bit to set things up there were only two providers

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back then that were doing podcast hosting libsyn and podbean And I went with

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Podbean because they were a little,

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honestly, they were a little cheaper.

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And we got that account. And lo and behold, we got a schedule together.

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Everybody kind of chimed in. Sawyer, Mark, you came right on in.

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And for the first run, we did a show on going to Mars and the infamous idea

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that there was an idea circulating at that time for a one-way trip.

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And we basically talked about that.

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Shoot, this was like the 1960s when we were first trying to get to the moon.

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There was a plan on the book similar to this that was dubbed,

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believe it or not, the poor slob plan.

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It went something like this.

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An individual was shot to the moon on a one-way trip.

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Food supplies, things like that are shot to him along with any type of science experiments.

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While we here back on Earth tried to go ahead and figure out a way to bring him back.

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And believe it or not, there were a lot of volunteers for that.

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So I'm, you know, I'm not exactly too sure that the public is going to support something like this.

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And we put the question out to people, would you go on a one-way trip?

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Now, Sawyer, you had a chance to talk to a rather interesting gentleman about this whole idea.

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Could you go ahead and sort of relay some of that to us?

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Certainly i was just about to get into that with what you said a couple

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of weeks ago i got to speak to richard garriott who was the

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multi-millionaire who actually sent himself to the

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international space station aboard a russian soyuz rocket right

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and i had the chance to actually sit down with him one day during a lunch conversation

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and he brought up a really interesting point because someone was talking about

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this one-way trip to mars and he asked all about seven or eight of us that were

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at this lunch table he went around and asked right now if i were to give you

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the opportunity to take that one-way trip to Mars,

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not going back, but you would have enough supplies to make it there, would you go?

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And every single person at that table said, yes, I would go.

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And so I find that very interesting how, you know, even though it's one way,

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you know, you're not coming back to Earth, people will still say,

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yeah, I'd love to go to Mars.

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I felt that I still feel the absurdity of that. And that's really how the whole thing germinated.

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And it just kind of took on a life of its own from that point.

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But again, I'm going to say this. I had, you know, Mark and Sawyer jumped on

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this immediately, which I am forever thankful for. We had...

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A another individual gina hurley

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that jumped on a little later and she

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brought a whole nuance to the show and i wanted i wanted a woman's voice on

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this thing to basically try to say hey this is not just a man's world and i

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i i really really wanted that and she just provided a a grand platform to

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for her point of view and i

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was just darn lucky to have her because she brought a lot of stuff

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because of her her her day job she brought a

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lot of stuff to the show as well and in plain

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english the beginning of the show i was just flat out blessed with

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the people i got everybody was enthusiastic everybody

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worked worked their tail off to make this thing to make

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this little mouse that roared move and and go on so i guess in a nutshell that's

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that's the whole story i'm i'll save the big one for for for something else

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but uh really that's how the whole thing started so one of those one of those

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people on that original team was sawyer who.

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Was 14 years old at the time is that right sawyer i think so let's see if it's

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september now and i'm 29 14 or 15 yeah i was in high school yeah when all of

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this started and that all came about i I have to give a small shout out to the Space Tweeps Society.

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Thank you, Sawyer. I was going to do that. Thank you for doing that. I appreciate it.

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To where Gene originally posted this crazy idea.

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And then I knew what podcasts were, at least at the time. And I was really into space stuff on Twitter.

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So the Space Tweeps, Twitter Peeps, that's how it got its name, Tweeps.

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I just saw that. I'm like, you know, I like hearing myself talk.

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Why not? but so signed on

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not knowing any of these people in the thread

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besides the their twitter handle basically and

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yeah of course i'll have some fun stories later about this but my parents you

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know the back in those days it was don't talk to strangers on the internet here

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i was talking to a whole bunch of strangers and putting my voice out to the

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world to hear but yeah that was the really early days.

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So what I'm interested in knowing is like, what did you think about all that at the time?

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So you were joining this podcasting team of adults.

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Did you ever say to yourself, what am I getting into here with all these old people?

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Not really. I think part of it in the beginning is the fact that we really didn't

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talk about ages that much.

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I mean, I'm sure the team knew I was younger, but it took them a while to realize

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how young I actually was. and they still accepted me and my viewpoint.

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And I think it honestly helped having that.

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I'm trying to put this politely, that younger viewpoint, someone who the only

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space vehicle that they'd grown up with at the time was the space shuttle,

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never seen the moon landing in person, anything like that, to,

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you know, be the voice of what at the time was today, quote unquote.

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Quote but it's funny story we

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had our fifth beetle cassie tamanini and

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the first time i ever talked with her online turns out we grew up

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in the same town and she said oh i left in 1994 and i said i moved in in 1994

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and when she found out later down the line months later how old i was she's

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like wait when you said you moved in i'm like yeah that's when i was born that's

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my favorite story ever. I was hoping you would share that.

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And by the way, age never played into it.

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It really never played into it. Sawyer, his wisdom goes beyond his age in plain

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English, and it really showed even in the early days of the recording.

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So age never really, really played a factor in any of this. I'll be one.

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He definitely, Sawyer, you must be an old soul, because I think back to when

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I was 14, and I think, number one, I probably would have been petrified to,

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you know, talk about anything with a bunch of adults who were enthusiastic about space.

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And yeah, I might have been too, but I would have been very intimidated.

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And it's really interesting, and I'm really, really impressed by the fact that

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you didn't let yourself be intimidated.

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Well, I was confident, because at the time, I was working at the Challenger

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Centers for space science education, which was teaching kids and in some cases adults about space.

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And so I was used to going up and talking in front of kids and teaching them.

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And I was also used to honestly teaching the adults as well through all of it.

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So I felt like I kind of had that sort of educational experience,

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maybe that I could bring and definitely the confidence in public speaking.

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So I think that was part of why I wasn't intimidated.

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I mean, at the Challenger Center, One of my favorite things I ever did was I

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worked a surprise birthday party for an 80-year-old woman.

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And to see how everyone, as soon as they talk about space stuff,

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gets childlike, that's kind of what I feel like happens with this.

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As soon as we get involved in a topic that we're passionate about,

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we're not thinking about age.

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We're thinking about how giddy we are about being able to talk about it.

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Exactly. And space kind of transcends all of that. Yeah.

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Before we go on, Larry, I just want to mention one other thing.

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I really wish Cassie were here because she was one of our early big cheerleaders to begin with.

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And then she kind of got involved in the show. And I also want to give a shout

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out to Todd Cielo, who actually did the Talking Space theme.

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We did not ask him for it. He volunteered it.

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And we were just in that that

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whole band of folks that just came together and

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and really lifted the show up and i

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have there's so many people in that

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i have to really really tip of the hat and if i did that

00:18:07.148 --> 00:18:10.388
we'd be here pretty much the entire time so i i

00:18:10.388 --> 00:18:13.208
can't go through everybody but but i just want to say if

00:18:13.208 --> 00:18:16.008
you're listening and you're one of the early listeners and you

00:18:16.008 --> 00:18:18.868
really were really were one of our champions we love

00:18:18.868 --> 00:18:21.628
you and thank you and for todd just to

00:18:21.628 --> 00:18:25.168
point out not only did he do it once but twice yes

00:18:25.168 --> 00:18:27.928
here the outro music at the end that used to

00:18:27.928 --> 00:18:33.688
be our intro music and then a few years in he revamped it to what has still

00:18:33.688 --> 00:18:38.648
been the intro music all the way through and we still honor both works that

00:18:38.648 --> 00:18:42.928
he did by including both of them in all of our shows very cool i had always

00:18:42.928 --> 00:18:45.968
wondered where that song came from. Now we all know.

00:18:46.668 --> 00:18:52.128
So, Mark, what were some of the biggest challenges that you remember facing

00:18:52.128 --> 00:18:54.328
in the early days of Talking Space?

00:18:54.628 --> 00:18:57.268
Well, a good point to start is the,

00:18:57.943 --> 00:19:04.543
Kind of a whirlwind, it seemed, of messages as this was slowly or quickly.

00:19:04.543 --> 00:19:09.663
I really don't remember gelling into the team that we started with.

00:19:09.923 --> 00:19:13.563
And I look back at one of the early emails just a few minutes ago,

00:19:13.603 --> 00:19:20.503
and I'm looking at the names and I'm thinking, holy cow, these are some good, good people.

00:19:21.583 --> 00:19:26.203
And as a what is it, the imposter syndrome, I'm thinking, what am I doing here?

00:19:26.203 --> 00:19:31.063
But be that as it may, if you were to listen to our first episode,

00:19:31.403 --> 00:19:38.043
we covered two primary topics, one of which would seriously question that Talking

00:19:38.043 --> 00:19:40.503
Space was a viable podcast.

00:19:41.103 --> 00:19:47.143
We talked about an ABC TV show on at the time in 2009 called Defying Gravity.

00:19:47.883 --> 00:19:55.143
And I think we laughed a fair amount in talking about it because it was more like, and I never saw it.

00:19:55.383 --> 00:20:00.343
I got to add that, but it seemed more like something Mad Magazine might have

00:20:00.343 --> 00:20:03.643
come up with from listening to Sawyer and Gene talk about it.

00:20:04.223 --> 00:20:07.063
Oh, God, yes, Mark. I remember that all too well.

00:20:07.063 --> 00:20:13.503
There was somebody, forgive me, and the name just ran in here,

00:20:13.623 --> 00:20:20.843
and I apologize to this lady because she's wonderful, but her name just took off.

00:20:21.943 --> 00:20:28.623
She, myself, and a few others on Twitter would sit there and just watch the

00:20:28.623 --> 00:20:33.223
show and literally lambaste it in real time on Twitter.

00:20:33.883 --> 00:20:39.323
The the individuals i'm talking about one of them is was a flight controller at the time.

00:20:40.063 --> 00:20:44.403
And a couple other people within the program and they were just like you know

00:20:44.403 --> 00:20:50.283
whiskey tango foxtrot what is this and and we would just just lambaste the show

00:20:50.283 --> 00:20:55.163
and we we did one of the first things we did as mark mentioned was a review

00:20:55.163 --> 00:20:58.703
on that program yeah i think we're ready for topic number two,

00:20:59.003 --> 00:21:04.743
and that is one that was suggested to me by just about a whole bunch of everybody,

00:21:05.303 --> 00:21:07.423
all the space tweets running around on Twitter.

00:21:08.023 --> 00:21:13.223
It seems like every Sunday night we kind of sort of gather by our television

00:21:13.223 --> 00:21:20.683
sets at about 10 o'clock and sort of kick around an interesting series that

00:21:20.683 --> 00:21:26.303
both the American Broadcasting Company and Canadian Television have put together

00:21:26.303 --> 00:21:27.583
called Defying Gravity.

00:21:27.843 --> 00:21:35.463
It depicts a multinational crew on its way on a grand tour through the solar system.

00:21:35.643 --> 00:21:40.283
The year I believe it set in, if somebody could refresh my memory, is 2082?

00:21:40.763 --> 00:21:45.923
That's correct. Okay. The whole thing, if I recall exactly, and even the,

00:21:45.923 --> 00:21:49.563
I believe the producers even tried to sell it in such a manner,

00:21:50.103 --> 00:21:52.223
was sort of Grey's Anatomy in Space.

00:21:53.820 --> 00:21:56.880
I don't know. I've I've I'm torn with this one.

00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:01.420
The way the thing is depicted. I don't know. Sometimes the first off,

00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:07.340
they make some really incredible errors in in, you know, in some cases in common sense.

00:22:07.840 --> 00:22:11.840
And in other cases, I don't know. It's too soap opera to me.

00:22:12.380 --> 00:22:15.980
You folks have seen the show. Sawyer. Go ahead.

00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:20.780
You're you're for thanks. Yeah. With this show, it's I'm one of the few people

00:22:20.780 --> 00:22:22.360
that actually can say this.

00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:25.260
Everybody out there please do not kill me and attack me on

00:22:25.260 --> 00:22:27.880
twitter but i'm one of

00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:30.860
the few people that actually say i like the

00:22:30.860 --> 00:22:37.440
show oh my true that it is very very inaccurate it has many inaccuracies including

00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.820
being able to communicate back and forth over a matter of seconds with no delay

00:22:41.820 --> 00:22:47.080
whatsoever even when there's a very small delay even between the station and

00:22:47.080 --> 00:22:50.140
earth even if it's two three seconds. This one, there's none at all.

00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:54.380
Between that and some of the other topics that are brought up that they try

00:22:54.380 --> 00:22:58.500
to make seem realistic, it just doesn't exactly work for me,

00:22:58.600 --> 00:23:03.960
including even if they make it 2052, you cannot grow back a thumb. I'm sorry.

00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:10.460
I mean, I could see, yeah, exactly. I mean, I could see doing microsurgery or

00:23:10.460 --> 00:23:12.220
something like that, but grow it back?

00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:17.020
I don't think we're going to be that advanced in 2052 it

00:23:17.020 --> 00:23:20.260
only lasted i think eight what was it sorry maybe maybe eight

00:23:20.260 --> 00:23:23.120
nine it was supposed if they recorded all

00:23:23.120 --> 00:23:25.860
10 episodes and apparently all 10 of them ended up airing in

00:23:25.860 --> 00:23:28.620
australia because i wanted to watch and see what

00:23:28.620 --> 00:23:33.400
actually happened since abc stopped airing it after i think the seventh episode

00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:38.440
because it was that bad yeah i mean it was getting absolutely no ratings you

00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:47.440
could do spaceflight but you could do it logically and And as a story and not as Space 90210,

00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:49.120
if you remember that series.

00:23:49.360 --> 00:23:50.880
And that's essentially what it was.

00:23:51.320 --> 00:23:56.120
And yet now there's a show on Fox here in the U.S. about celebrities pretending

00:23:56.120 --> 00:23:58.260
to be on a fake Mars mission.

00:23:58.520 --> 00:24:00.940
Yeah, I think Bill Shatner is the host of that one.

00:24:01.260 --> 00:24:05.760
He totally hosted it. It was hilarious. It was so stupid, but I loved it so much.

00:24:06.580 --> 00:24:09.480
I think we need to bring back the space show reviews then for this.

00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:14.120
Oh good lord cat you're gonna you're gonna have to do the review on that one.

00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:22.800
The celebrities called william shatner shatty daddy oh my gosh and he seemed

00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:26.720
to be okay with it and then he shut up on mars but he was the only one who didn't

00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:31.100
have to wear a space suit outside also the only one that actually quote unquote

00:24:31.100 --> 00:24:34.640
went to space but yeah it was it was,

00:24:35.580 --> 00:24:38.220
so bad, but so bad it was hilarious.

00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:41.980
It was like watching one of those old B-movies. So good.

00:24:42.928 --> 00:24:48.788
Oh, boy. Shout out to my friend Meg for recommending. See, the more things change,

00:24:48.968 --> 00:24:49.868
the more they stay the same.

00:24:51.228 --> 00:24:57.508
Yeah, exactly. Well, just to put our suits and ties back on for a second,

00:24:57.668 --> 00:25:05.248
the other topic was about ascending one human to Mars solo and a one-way trip.

00:25:05.768 --> 00:25:11.668
And as I recall, we generally speaking, we got into some good discussion and debate on that.

00:25:12.268 --> 00:25:15.628
And kind of we rolled on from there yeah we

00:25:15.628 --> 00:25:18.388
realized that there was actual space news that we could talk

00:25:18.388 --> 00:25:21.388
about and i think it helped also that once we

00:25:21.388 --> 00:25:25.768
kind of got the feel for how all of us interacted with each other then we felt

00:25:25.768 --> 00:25:29.888
more comfortable going all right you know let's uh let's talk about this upcoming

00:25:29.888 --> 00:25:34.168
shuttle mission or this upcoming science mission right and not only that we

00:25:34.168 --> 00:25:40.788
had in the beginning we had some really heavy hitters drop into our lap,

00:25:41.448 --> 00:25:43.708
Gina procured a couple of them.

00:25:44.648 --> 00:25:51.408
Sawyer, you did as well. I mean, the interviews that we had lined up in the

00:25:51.408 --> 00:25:54.408
first season of this were just mind-blowing.

00:25:54.428 --> 00:25:58.988
And I still remember talking to a few of these people. We would turn the recorder off.

00:25:59.588 --> 00:26:06.668
And after we've recorded with that particular individual, and there would be

00:26:06.668 --> 00:26:11.128
dead silence afterward for like maybe three seconds, three or four seconds or so.

00:26:11.388 --> 00:26:14.928
And we just kind of laugh and go, did that really just happen?

00:26:15.348 --> 00:26:22.108
You know, that was the kind of interviews we had in the beginning.

00:26:22.148 --> 00:26:25.368
And a couple of these folks were awfully gracious.

00:26:25.568 --> 00:26:31.388
And I want to, if I recall exactly, we talked with Miles O'Brien and it was

00:26:31.388 --> 00:26:36.608
where he was at the time. It was an ungodly hour, I think. It was something like 3 in the morning.

00:26:36.788 --> 00:26:44.748
But he was still gracious and still went ahead and talked with us and spent some time with us.

00:26:44.868 --> 00:26:48.608
And the man is just a consummate gentleman. I just want to go ahead and add that.

00:26:48.728 --> 00:26:52.648
And that's the former CNN space correspondent? Is that right?

00:26:52.788 --> 00:26:53.928
Right. He's now with PBS.

00:26:54.848 --> 00:26:59.588
He was a big supporter and is actually my mentor, in part because of all of that.

00:26:59.828 --> 00:27:04.968
But I'm just going through the list here. In the first year that we were on

00:27:04.968 --> 00:27:10.108
the air, so from September 2009 to September 2010, we had astronaut Dr.

00:27:10.268 --> 00:27:14.588
Tom Jones, we had Scott Parazynski, we had...

00:27:15.517 --> 00:27:19.217
Walt Cunningham. We had Rusty Schweikert.

00:27:20.077 --> 00:27:22.697
And again, keep in mind, this is all just seasons one and two,

00:27:22.897 --> 00:27:26.777
our first year, and Mike Mullane. Wow.

00:27:28.117 --> 00:27:34.237
One realization for me, which was a real eye-opener, because I had never done

00:27:34.237 --> 00:27:42.137
anything with, really, with public speaking or in a capacity of press.

00:27:42.877 --> 00:27:49.817
But the astronauts and And the professionals we talk to are so generous with

00:27:49.817 --> 00:27:55.457
their time and with their willingness to participate and go down the road that,

00:27:55.457 --> 00:27:58.057
you know, that we that we talked,

00:27:58.277 --> 00:28:00.977
that we asked questions of. They were just phenomenal.

00:28:01.237 --> 00:28:03.017
And that was a real eye opener for me.

00:28:03.457 --> 00:28:07.197
Yeah, I mean, the fact that they were talking to us and the most amazing thing

00:28:07.197 --> 00:28:10.117
is afterwards, some of them would even say to us like, oh, I've been asked questions

00:28:10.117 --> 00:28:14.417
like that, you know, because we're not where we were in that new era.

00:28:14.417 --> 00:28:19.017
Where we weren't mainstream media, which is what they're mostly used to.

00:28:19.197 --> 00:28:23.637
And there wasn't such a thing as social media influencers or anything like that at the time.

00:28:24.417 --> 00:28:30.017
Podcasts were still very new. So we were pioneering in the way a new era of

00:28:30.017 --> 00:28:31.897
even how to interview these people,

00:28:32.137 --> 00:28:37.617
especially some of these very historic astronauts who have had amazing careers

00:28:37.617 --> 00:28:39.997
and decided to give us an hour or two of their time.

00:28:40.817 --> 00:28:43.557
Yeah, one of the other things I didn't want to do is I didn't want to waste

00:28:43.557 --> 00:28:47.397
their time, nor did I want to ask puffball-type questions.

00:28:48.057 --> 00:28:53.537
I wanted to ask insightful questions, and I wanted to let folks know that,

00:28:53.617 --> 00:28:54.777
gosh darn it, we're serious.

00:28:55.537 --> 00:28:59.637
And above all, though, I really didn't want to waste these folks' time with

00:28:59.637 --> 00:29:03.317
just really dumb, inert questions like that.

00:29:03.837 --> 00:29:05.757
I've heard some outlets ask.

00:29:06.337 --> 00:29:11.317
And that's a promise, by the way, going forward, too. If you come on the show,

00:29:11.397 --> 00:29:12.257
we're not going to waste your time.

00:29:12.977 --> 00:29:19.757
For sure. So, Kat, where along this whole journey of Talking Space did you hop

00:29:19.757 --> 00:29:21.957
on board? And how did that come about?

00:29:22.397 --> 00:29:24.717
Well, we have Cassie to blame for that.

00:29:27.357 --> 00:29:31.477
How dare you? I knew it.

00:29:31.477 --> 00:29:38.297
So much like everyone on the podcast, Twitter is, you know, that's where we

00:29:38.297 --> 00:29:42.497
all were, you know, on space, we had the, you know, space tweets,

00:29:42.577 --> 00:29:44.257
and we were all there. And,

00:29:45.800 --> 00:29:51.600
I, a friend of ours, a mutual friend of Cassie and ours, Danny Sussman,

00:29:51.760 --> 00:29:55.940
who some of you may know, he's at the Suss on Twitter, knew that both Cassie

00:29:55.940 --> 00:29:57.540
and I were going to go see a launch.

00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.800
And he said, Hey, I thought that you two would be good friends.

00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:01.980
So you should talk to each other.

00:30:02.540 --> 00:30:06.680
And so we did. And it was, incidentally, my first launch that I had seen live

00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:10.820
and her last launch that she's seen live until just recently she covered.

00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:15.240
But it was Juno, which, I mean, I have like a special love for Jupiter.

00:30:15.740 --> 00:30:19.880
Anyway, side note, at my wedding, Cassie actually sang a song about Jupiter,

00:30:20.360 --> 00:30:23.680
celebrating where we met. And I just, it's a lovely song.

00:30:23.840 --> 00:30:26.500
So it was very fun. Now that's commitment to Jupiter.

00:30:29.580 --> 00:30:33.800
I should clarify, I did not marry Jupiter. I did marry my partner,

00:30:34.120 --> 00:30:35.900
Kaveh, who is a human man.

00:30:38.580 --> 00:30:44.940
But yeah, so Cassie and I met And that was, oh gosh That was around that time

00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:49.040
Might have been 2009 as well I don't remember when Gino launched, which I should But,

00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:55.380
you know, I'm old now So my memory is not as good as some of our younger compatriots August, August,

00:30:56.441 --> 00:31:00.101
Kat, August 6th, 2011.

00:31:02.321 --> 00:31:06.701
Yeah. I couldn't remember. I met Danny in 2009. So that's probably why I got

00:31:06.701 --> 00:31:09.021
that because that was at my JPL tweet up.

00:31:09.101 --> 00:31:12.501
This was back when they were still called tweet ups, which probably almost no

00:31:12.501 --> 00:31:14.321
one but us dinosaurs remember anymore.

00:31:14.841 --> 00:31:16.801
Except yours truly, but we're not going to go there.

00:31:19.221 --> 00:31:23.321
So Cassie and I met and we became good friends over the next couple of years.

00:31:23.321 --> 00:31:28.681
And I was working through education. I was in a master's program at the time.

00:31:28.761 --> 00:31:29.961
I think I first came on the show.

00:31:30.061 --> 00:31:33.001
I can't remember if I'd started my PhD yet or if I would still have my master's,

00:31:33.101 --> 00:31:41.081
but I had presented some research on the use of social media in tweet apps.

00:31:41.241 --> 00:31:48.181
And so NASA's use of social media at the International Astronautical Congress in Toronto in 2014.

00:31:48.721 --> 00:31:53.601
And so I guess Cassie had spoke about that, and you were all kind enough to

00:31:53.601 --> 00:31:56.321
invite me on the show to talk about the conference and my research.

00:31:56.921 --> 00:31:59.441
And then you just didn't let me go.

00:32:00.841 --> 00:32:06.221
There was always some reason I kept getting invited back on.

00:32:06.361 --> 00:32:10.981
And so then I started covering things like IAC for Talking Space.

00:32:11.781 --> 00:32:15.641
And then, you know, at that point, I had gotten into my PhD program.

00:32:15.941 --> 00:32:20.621
And as all of our listeners will know, my PhD is on the role of political communication

00:32:20.621 --> 00:32:23.081
and the formation and dissemination of space policy.

00:32:23.341 --> 00:32:27.741
So my PhD is on, you know, how politics makes space work.

00:32:28.101 --> 00:32:31.821
And I currently still work in, you know, the space policy.

00:32:31.941 --> 00:32:35.621
I'm working at a university, but teach things around outer space governance.

00:32:35.621 --> 00:32:38.261
And I'm currently, what am I doing now?

00:32:38.361 --> 00:32:42.981
Running a public opinion survey on Australian public opinion on space through

00:32:42.981 --> 00:32:46.501
the ANU Center for space governance. So it's,

00:32:47.214 --> 00:32:48.834
Yeah, so I just, that's how I'm

00:32:48.834 --> 00:32:52.454
here. I just, you guys got your claws into me and you didn't let me go.

00:32:52.594 --> 00:33:01.174
And I really enjoy it. It's been fun to be able to, yeah, bring a slightly different perspective.

00:33:01.374 --> 00:33:05.614
Although I feel like Gene always, he and I are always thinking about things

00:33:05.614 --> 00:33:09.454
sometimes from the same angles because he's got some of that background. on it again.

00:33:09.714 --> 00:33:14.854
My PhD is in political science, but my undergrad and my master's are in different subjects.

00:33:15.574 --> 00:33:20.154
So it's really fun. And I enjoy it. Also quite big on science communication.

00:33:20.154 --> 00:33:25.054
So I see the pod as a great outlet for science communication.

00:33:25.314 --> 00:33:30.214
And one of the things I love about Talking Space is that we get to go in depth

00:33:30.214 --> 00:33:34.254
and have conversations that you can't hear on just a normal news podcast.

00:33:34.514 --> 00:33:41.694
It's more like reading The New Yorker. You get the commentary about what's happening.

00:33:42.394 --> 00:33:45.074
And talking about getting some big names, I was just thinking about my first

00:33:45.074 --> 00:33:50.874
interview for Talking Space. I did it with Sunny Williams, who is a NASA astronaut.

00:33:51.474 --> 00:33:58.454
And I was at IAC in 2015, which took place in Jerusalem and had managed to schedule some time.

00:33:58.614 --> 00:34:02.314
And so, she told her handler, oh, we're just going to go over to this quiet

00:34:02.314 --> 00:34:03.934
space. I was supposed to have five minutes.

00:34:04.334 --> 00:34:09.594
She proceeded to ask me about my work for the 30 minutes, which I,

00:34:09.794 --> 00:34:13.734
to this day, I'm so sad I didn't record that part before I was like,

00:34:13.874 --> 00:34:16.914
hey, you're really supposed to give me five minutes. And I feel like your handler's

00:34:16.914 --> 00:34:17.914
getting a little stressed.

00:34:18.314 --> 00:34:21.814
Maybe we should do this interview. But she was just so incredibly gracious and

00:34:21.814 --> 00:34:25.314
kind and interested, like that curiosity.

00:34:27.474 --> 00:34:31.554
I think I've great things about space is that it awakens this,

00:34:32.474 --> 00:34:35.434
you know, one of you said childlike, you know, you get that passion,

00:34:35.494 --> 00:34:38.894
but for me, that like innate human curiosity.

00:34:39.314 --> 00:34:43.434
And I think that Sunny, she just really showed that just quality.

00:34:43.434 --> 00:34:48.194
She was just so curious and just wanted to know about the world around her,

00:34:48.414 --> 00:34:51.294
even though she was supposed to be the subject of the interview. Yeah.

00:34:52.282 --> 00:34:55.522
This is really fantastic, the opportunities and the people I've gotten to meet

00:34:55.522 --> 00:34:56.702
because of talking space.

00:34:56.982 --> 00:35:02.602
And just, you know, very humbled to be able to go into people's lives and talk

00:35:02.602 --> 00:35:04.242
about something that's so important to all of us.

00:35:04.802 --> 00:35:07.382
Yeah. For holding you hostage, blink twice.

00:35:09.462 --> 00:35:16.542
You stole my line, Sawyer. That's exactly what I was planning on saying, something like that.

00:35:19.022 --> 00:35:23.362
Well, you guys kept me. I'm like, you've got the real Stockholm syndrome going on here.

00:35:23.442 --> 00:35:30.522
I moved across the planet and you guys still have me somehow. There is no escape.

00:35:31.562 --> 00:35:37.202
One of the things that I'm sorry, I was just going to say that one of the things

00:35:37.202 --> 00:35:42.722
that I am amazed at about talking space is that once you're in,

00:35:42.902 --> 00:35:48.782
it's like you're in, you know, you just everybody's was very welcoming and very matter of fact.

00:35:48.782 --> 00:35:52.922
When I joined, which I was really, you know, kind of worried about,

00:35:53.162 --> 00:35:57.602
I just couldn't understand how, well, you know, why is this so easy?

00:35:58.842 --> 00:36:04.462
Why is it so easy just to be accepted and be a part of the team and just carry on?

00:36:05.142 --> 00:36:08.482
Did you have that? It's a summer camp. Thank you.

00:36:10.302 --> 00:36:14.902
Did you have that same experience, though? Did you have that same thought when you came aboard?

00:36:15.580 --> 00:36:20.940
Yeah, I mean, it's just, I think the best analogy is really is that the crew

00:36:20.940 --> 00:36:27.180
here is like a summer camp, you know, no matter who comes, you're part of the you're part of the team.

00:36:27.380 --> 00:36:31.160
And yeah, you're always welcome back. We love a reunion.

00:36:31.740 --> 00:36:35.200
And, and I think, you know, we, we do this.

00:36:35.900 --> 00:36:39.580
And we have to respect there's got to be some flexibility. So there's times

00:36:39.580 --> 00:36:42.820
when, you know, some people take up more of the reins than others.

00:36:44.180 --> 00:36:47.520
And anytime we can get someone on that we haven't heard from for a while,

00:36:47.700 --> 00:36:54.940
and lately that's been me, everyone's just thrilled and super happy to have everyone back.

00:36:55.040 --> 00:36:57.280
So like I said, Talking Space, it's summer camp.

00:36:57.460 --> 00:37:00.920
But it's like nerd camp because we're all also nerds.

00:37:02.620 --> 00:37:06.600
So one of the things that hasn't, at least it hasn't been mentioned since I've

00:37:06.600 --> 00:37:12.980
been a part of the team, is that at one point you moved from the United States to Australia, Kat.

00:37:13.220 --> 00:37:17.580
And that obviously makes it harder to get on a recording session.

00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:21.120
And, you know, there are some other challenges involved there, too, I guess.

00:37:22.260 --> 00:37:25.720
Yeah, it's easier right now because the time difference isn't horrible.

00:37:25.720 --> 00:37:31.020
But once we go into daylight savings and you guys go in to the opposite out of it.

00:37:32.380 --> 00:37:35.200
Then we the time difference between like the east coast and

00:37:35.200 --> 00:37:40.200
me is 15 and a half hours right now it's 13 and a half so it's uh 10 46 a.m

00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:49.660
for me right now and i believe it's 9 16 yeah something like that yeah but you

00:37:49.660 --> 00:37:54.600
know just make it work luckily i'm a night owl so when the time when the time switches,

00:37:55.240 --> 00:37:56.680
it works weirdly as well.

00:37:56.720 --> 00:38:00.980
I don't know, but we just make it happen. We always make it work. Always.

00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:03.960
So another question that I

00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:08.660
had for everybody is, uh, what are some of your favorite episodes and why?

00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:12.160
And Mark, we'll start with you as he thinks.

00:38:13.160 --> 00:38:17.740
This will be a surprise. Oh, by the way, I remember a cartoon from when I was

00:38:17.740 --> 00:38:19.540
a kid, might've been tumbleweeds.

00:38:20.020 --> 00:38:23.960
And it showed this character in a cowboy hat saying, And when I sit,

00:38:24.120 --> 00:38:26.180
I think, and when I think, I fall asleep.

00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:31.540
So, you know, you might want to shake my chair every now and then make sure

00:38:31.540 --> 00:38:32.520
I'm still paying attention.

00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:35.120
And what was your question?

00:38:38.900 --> 00:38:44.200
So what are some of your favorite episodes or most challenging episodes or,

00:38:44.260 --> 00:38:47.520
you know, pick an episode and why was it that?

00:38:48.060 --> 00:38:55.360
I'll give you one of each. Most challenging was a guest, and I believe it was Gene and Sawyer,

00:38:55.640 --> 00:39:03.500
at the very least, the three of us, and this guest who had her background in the Apollo program.

00:39:04.060 --> 00:39:09.800
And I want to say she was a mathematician, and she worked at,

00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.580
I'm going to use modern day terms, let's say, Michoud.

00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:16.780
And she was working on the Saturn V, the first stage of the Saturn V.

00:39:16.780 --> 00:39:20.800
And of course at this point that

00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:24.340
would have been in the 60s and you know

00:39:24.340 --> 00:39:33.460
fast forward to early 20 teens i guess she was difficult she was funny she had

00:39:33.460 --> 00:39:35.620
some great stories but oh my

00:39:35.620 --> 00:39:41.200
gosh when it came to editing it sawyer and gene said mark it's all yours,

00:39:41.720 --> 00:39:43.520
And I did the best I could.

00:39:44.180 --> 00:39:49.000
And it was tough. It was really tough because she rambled.

00:39:49.220 --> 00:39:53.480
She went off on tangents, but she had some interesting stories.

00:39:53.600 --> 00:39:56.880
So that was the tough one. The one that was the most fun.

00:39:57.520 --> 00:40:03.120
This was for pre-launch press events for one of the last shuttle missions.

00:40:03.240 --> 00:40:07.340
It would have been Endeavor. and I remember walking across the grass towards

00:40:07.340 --> 00:40:13.400
the press site building and seeing a young woman walking in front of me with,

00:40:13.520 --> 00:40:14.560
I want to say, a backpack.

00:40:14.940 --> 00:40:17.340
And I remember thinking, who's this kid?

00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:24.220
Well, later in the day, that kid was one of the people that I signed up for

00:40:24.220 --> 00:40:27.020
a short interview with, Dr. Tara Rutley.

00:40:27.520 --> 00:40:31.480
And Dr. Tara Rutley was a guest several times on the show.

00:40:32.325 --> 00:40:38.605
But she pretty much got me when I asked her some, probably a couple of questions.

00:40:38.805 --> 00:40:42.025
And then I said, tell me about AMS-2.

00:40:42.285 --> 00:40:48.105
And she said, oh, AMS-2. And she went on from there.

00:40:48.405 --> 00:40:56.945
And that was, to me, that was so, man, it was like finding a gold nugget because she was so excited.

00:40:57.185 --> 00:41:02.065
She was extremely knowledgeable. I think she was the associate scientist for

00:41:02.065 --> 00:41:07.165
ISS science and just incredible.

00:41:07.585 --> 00:41:13.345
If I had known nothing at that point about the space program,

00:41:13.545 --> 00:41:18.905
she pretty much would have sold me entirely on the opportunities to talk to

00:41:18.905 --> 00:41:21.725
some of these engineers,

00:41:22.045 --> 00:41:24.785
mission managers, flight people.

00:41:25.525 --> 00:41:29.185
I can't even remember the terms for some of the people that I talked to in the

00:41:29.185 --> 00:41:32.565
time frame of 2010, 2011, 2012.

00:41:33.625 --> 00:41:37.965
And Dr. Tara Rutley, she was on with us a couple more times talking about ISS

00:41:37.965 --> 00:41:42.245
science, payloads going up, and she's just a gem.

00:41:42.405 --> 00:41:47.085
And that's my positive. And, of course, you heard the other part.

00:41:47.605 --> 00:41:50.005
Sounds like somebody we should have on again sometime.

00:41:51.285 --> 00:41:55.065
She's now with Blue Origin, I believe. Yeah, she at one point,

00:41:55.125 --> 00:41:56.825
I think, ended up becoming the head of science.

00:41:57.065 --> 00:42:01.105
And that was followed by somebody else who we also ended up speaking with.

00:42:01.305 --> 00:42:05.565
And I do have the business card for the current head of ISS science over at

00:42:05.565 --> 00:42:06.725
the Johnson Space Center.

00:42:06.905 --> 00:42:10.565
So maybe we'll bring that back. Science is fun.

00:42:11.225 --> 00:42:14.265
Indeed. And Mark, I concur with you.

00:42:14.705 --> 00:42:16.725
And Tara Rutley was such an engaging

00:42:16.725 --> 00:42:21.245
guest. And I'm hoping that at some point we can get her back here.

00:42:21.925 --> 00:42:24.965
Sawyer, you have the same answers to those questions or different?

00:42:25.405 --> 00:42:29.605
Oh, very different. Go for it. In terms of...

00:42:30.183 --> 00:42:37.063
The proudest? It's hard because it's not necessarily like a straight up recorded

00:42:37.063 --> 00:42:42.903
episode, but it has to be the STS-135 broadcast would be top of my list.

00:42:43.103 --> 00:42:51.303
When we broadcast live, both on digital radio and actual NPR stations and NPR

00:42:51.303 --> 00:42:57.923
affiliates on 11 different stations in seven countries, the final space shuttle launch.

00:42:57.923 --> 00:43:04.563
And I still recall just before they entered the terminal count, T minus 32 seconds,

00:43:04.903 --> 00:43:11.123
they called a hold and they weren't sure if the beanie cap, which helps fuel

00:43:11.123 --> 00:43:14.543
the giant orange external tank, had fully retracted or not.

00:43:14.543 --> 00:43:17.923
I didn't know that for certain because we

00:43:17.923 --> 00:43:20.743
had no nasa tv this was the

00:43:20.743 --> 00:43:23.983
era of 3g so everything crashed

00:43:23.983 --> 00:43:28.423
cellular and there were so many people there that it also crashed the physical

00:43:28.423 --> 00:43:33.823
wi-fi the only wi-fi we had was connecting us to our broadcast so we were not

00:43:33.823 --> 00:43:38.463
going to mess with that to make sure that the station still got our feed so

00:43:38.463 --> 00:43:42.023
all i had was the audio from uh mission control.

00:43:42.763 --> 00:43:46.583
And somehow i made the correct assumption i

00:43:46.583 --> 00:43:49.443
don't want to say it was a guess but it was

00:43:49.443 --> 00:43:53.043
i guess an informed and educated guess that

00:43:53.043 --> 00:43:58.523
turned out to be correct later on to be on the air there making history mark

00:43:58.523 --> 00:44:04.323
worked his tail off to get the whole tent and technology set up and even had

00:44:04.323 --> 00:44:08.323
a talking space banner out there at the press site when we say that one of us

00:44:08.323 --> 00:44:10.163
is there flying the talking space flag.

00:44:10.383 --> 00:44:13.503
That was the time we literally flew the flag.

00:44:13.663 --> 00:44:18.523
And it was also the first time that the original four members had ever met together,

00:44:18.523 --> 00:44:22.203
been in the same room at the same time together.

00:44:22.883 --> 00:44:26.443
So I think that was up there as both exciting and challenging.

00:44:26.703 --> 00:44:32.703
We're talking about actual episodes. I believe it was the ISS Research and Development

00:44:32.703 --> 00:44:38.623
Conference in 2016, if I recall, in Washington, in D.C.

00:44:39.203 --> 00:44:42.443
I was there. Obviously, we were there for the couple of years before.

00:44:42.763 --> 00:44:46.543
Great events, a lot of great science and information from it.

00:44:46.763 --> 00:44:49.403
And of course, there's, you know, astronauts that are there.

00:44:50.103 --> 00:44:54.863
And I remember talking to one of the astronaut handlers of like,

00:44:55.263 --> 00:44:59.643
hey, you know, if she has some time, I'd love to talk to Kate Rubins,

00:44:59.763 --> 00:45:01.643
who at the time had just come back from the space station.

00:45:02.321 --> 00:45:06.101
And she's like, sure, I'll talk to her. We'll make something happen.

00:45:06.601 --> 00:45:11.561
So I ran into her in the hall at one point and stopped by to said hi and asked

00:45:11.561 --> 00:45:12.561
if she'd want to do an interview.

00:45:12.741 --> 00:45:14.521
She's like, who are you with? I'm like talking space. She's like,

00:45:14.741 --> 00:45:16.041
we listened to that in Houston.

00:45:16.561 --> 00:45:21.061
The fact that she had heard of us and that said that other people in the office,

00:45:21.321 --> 00:45:24.301
which I assume some of them were also astronauts, but her herself,

00:45:24.501 --> 00:45:29.141
an astronaut who had just come back from the space station, knew of and had listened to our show.

00:45:29.141 --> 00:45:32.281
So that just made that interview that much more special.

00:45:32.461 --> 00:45:39.521
And she was so enthusiastic about all the DNA research that they had been doing on board the station.

00:45:39.841 --> 00:45:45.361
And I was just that was one of my favorite episodes was not only realizing that,

00:45:45.441 --> 00:45:49.881
hey, there are astronauts that listen to us, but then are willing to share their

00:45:49.881 --> 00:45:51.861
passion. That was just the best.

00:45:52.801 --> 00:45:57.701
That's pretty awesome. I would have I would have probably been rendered speechless by that.

00:45:59.461 --> 00:46:06.521
So, with that little tidbit in mind, do you think that – I'll throw this out

00:46:06.521 --> 00:46:10.181
to everybody – do you think that our audience has changed over time?

00:46:10.661 --> 00:46:14.361
And another question is, how would we even know that?

00:46:14.361 --> 00:46:22.341
Because I know that we get not hardly any comments back to our website when

00:46:22.341 --> 00:46:28.221
no matter how much we ask for them, I know that we get comments on social media.

00:46:28.841 --> 00:46:34.701
I'm just starting to find that out for myself, getting myself in a little bit

00:46:34.701 --> 00:46:36.161
of hot water from time to time.

00:46:36.401 --> 00:46:41.661
But how has the audience changed over time, do you think?

00:46:42.535 --> 00:46:46.775
Well, I think the times have changed.

00:46:47.595 --> 00:46:52.115
For instance, when we first started out, there was really maybe one,

00:46:52.435 --> 00:46:59.915
two, possibly three, possibly three entities that were doing something along the lines that we did.

00:47:00.095 --> 00:47:03.295
I think I'm trying to remember their names.

00:47:03.495 --> 00:47:07.115
One of them was, I think, Space Task Force. They no longer exist.

00:47:07.255 --> 00:47:12.655
They're not podcasting anymore. There were two others, but they kind of started out.

00:47:12.755 --> 00:47:16.675
But I think the audience has become a lot more sophisticated because now we

00:47:16.675 --> 00:47:22.135
have we're in the age of YouTube influencers and we have other individuals out

00:47:22.135 --> 00:47:28.415
there that are sort of fan club ish around a certain one entity or another.

00:47:28.415 --> 00:47:33.915
They're everybody's wearing their their T-shirts and their their team jerseys now for some reason.

00:47:34.075 --> 00:47:37.975
But the audience has has become a little bit more sophisticated.

00:47:38.655 --> 00:47:45.015
And to be honest, we've we've tried to respond to that in in the way we go about things.

00:47:45.015 --> 00:47:49.755
We've we've had some changes in format right and left and so on to respond to

00:47:49.755 --> 00:47:54.415
the way the audience we think is is kind of listening to our program.

00:47:54.415 --> 00:47:59.615
So we've really, really tried to accommodate the audience and still hang on

00:47:59.615 --> 00:48:01.675
to the folks that have been with us forever.

00:48:02.315 --> 00:48:05.855
I'm not too sure that we've succeeded. I'm hoping we have.

00:48:06.335 --> 00:48:11.535
But, you know, unless we're part of a Nielsen rating thing, it's going to be

00:48:11.535 --> 00:48:13.955
very, very difficult to ascertain what's going on.

00:48:14.155 --> 00:48:19.775
I know we do have our own stats and so on, but it only gives us it doesn't really

00:48:19.775 --> 00:48:23.295
give us the whole picture. And I wish we had something that would give us the

00:48:23.295 --> 00:48:24.815
whole picture, but unfortunately, we don't.

00:48:25.555 --> 00:48:28.295
Yeah, that's a problem with the industry at large, I think.

00:48:30.295 --> 00:48:33.855
I feel like I should design a talking space listener survey.

00:48:34.035 --> 00:48:35.555
It's like my area of expertise.

00:48:36.615 --> 00:48:40.615
You should, Kat. That would be awesome. That would be awesome.

00:48:40.735 --> 00:48:41.695
That would be a great idea.

00:48:42.255 --> 00:48:46.935
One thing I think, though, for sure, is that whether the audience has changed

00:48:46.935 --> 00:48:53.595
or not, we have certainly changed. Our format has changed multiple times up until this point.

00:48:53.735 --> 00:49:00.495
And I think that was a combination of A, us all getting older and things happening in our lives.

00:49:00.635 --> 00:49:06.095
And B, the fact that the internet was quickly taking the world by storm.

00:49:06.295 --> 00:49:10.355
More podcasts were popping up, so you want to make yourself a little bit different.

00:49:10.835 --> 00:49:15.115
There was one point where we were the, you know, the long form go into detail

00:49:15.115 --> 00:49:16.535
on everything episode, Which,

00:49:16.955 --> 00:49:22.615
having edited the first 180 or so episodes of the show myself,

00:49:22.995 --> 00:49:26.855
was getting to be a little much, especially since I was also doing this while

00:49:26.855 --> 00:49:28.115
in high school and college.

00:49:29.527 --> 00:49:35.227
But I think now that the attention span is so short for a lot of people on the

00:49:35.227 --> 00:49:38.587
internet, everything is the shorts, the short form content, the TikToks,

00:49:38.647 --> 00:49:42.607
the Instagram, the reels, all that kind of stuff.

00:49:43.007 --> 00:49:47.787
I think we're kind of adapting in a way as well to that where,

00:49:48.007 --> 00:49:53.147
you know, leave our current format where we go over a couple of quick items

00:49:53.147 --> 00:49:55.127
and then we take our time with a few others.

00:49:55.127 --> 00:49:59.007
But still nowhere near the 30, 40 minutes we used to spend sometimes on one

00:49:59.007 --> 00:50:00.267
single topic on the show.

00:50:00.467 --> 00:50:05.867
So I think we have evolved. And I'm going to guess that the people that are

00:50:05.867 --> 00:50:09.847
still with us or that are just recently joining us have evolved as well.

00:50:10.327 --> 00:50:13.867
I think that's 15 years. Something had to have changed. That's a very valid

00:50:13.867 --> 00:50:15.907
point. Very valid point.

00:50:16.667 --> 00:50:19.847
Hey, Larry, can I just add something real fast? You were talking about favorites.

00:50:20.047 --> 00:50:23.267
I'm not going to talk about a favorite episode, but I'm going to talk about a favorite moment.

00:50:23.827 --> 00:50:34.727
Sure. It was during the landing of the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer, as Mark had pointed out.

00:50:35.167 --> 00:50:44.347
That was the first time that talking space was permitted on site at the Kennedy Space Center.

00:50:44.467 --> 00:50:49.147
As this thing arrived, it was the first time we got press credentials.

00:50:49.787 --> 00:50:54.167
And Mark, you were carrying the banner into battle for us.

00:50:54.727 --> 00:51:02.127
And I had gotten home from work. In fact, I think I got home from work early just to see this. And I.

00:51:02.835 --> 00:51:08.335
I remember turning on NASA television and sitting there and watching the whole thing.

00:51:08.895 --> 00:51:13.575
And when Mark, when you came up to ask the question, I just lost about five

00:51:13.575 --> 00:51:23.415
buttons on my shirt because that moment was the moment where I think we had finally arrived.

00:51:23.415 --> 00:51:31.195
And if I remember exactly, we had to almost fight tooth and nail to be on site

00:51:31.195 --> 00:51:36.335
for that event. And we weren't guaranteed that we were ever going to be back.

00:51:36.895 --> 00:51:40.635
But Mark, you represented us extraordinarily well.

00:51:40.815 --> 00:51:46.815
And when you went ahead and asked that question, as I said, I almost welled

00:51:46.815 --> 00:51:50.115
up because I was like, we finally did it. We did it.

00:51:50.255 --> 00:51:52.615
We're there. We're at the table, finally.

00:51:53.415 --> 00:51:59.535
And I'll fast forward a little bit to a moment with former NASA PAO, George Diller.

00:52:00.035 --> 00:52:07.035
This was at the Mars Science Laboratory, or Curiosity, as it's known for a lot

00:52:07.035 --> 00:52:10.915
of folks. This was the launch for that particular rover.

00:52:11.515 --> 00:52:16.615
And, of course, there's a pre-launch Q&A and all of that.

00:52:16.615 --> 00:52:24.095
And I sat there, and George goes ahead and points to the person with the boom

00:52:24.095 --> 00:52:27.755
mic so you can ask your question while you're in the gallery there.

00:52:28.695 --> 00:52:32.635
And George, when he pointed to me, he called on me by name.

00:52:33.955 --> 00:52:39.895
And the hairs on the back of my neck stood up, and I was just – I asked the

00:52:39.895 --> 00:52:43.875
question, but it was an indication that, yeah, we've arrived.

00:52:44.295 --> 00:52:46.155
That they know us.

00:52:46.615 --> 00:52:50.915
And and we are officially a member of the fraternity, as it were,

00:52:51.095 --> 00:52:58.255
when it came to coming to these these events and with with the rest of the accredited press.

00:52:58.435 --> 00:53:04.835
And that was just, again, probably the second most proudest moment that I've had.

00:53:05.075 --> 00:53:11.335
The first one was was when when Mark asked that question, I was just as I said, I lost.

00:53:11.595 --> 00:53:17.455
I was so darn proud. I mean, I was just so darn proud of the team that we had built at that moment.

00:53:18.255 --> 00:53:23.775
I knew one thing, Jean, too, about this is being able to cover these events as press.

00:53:23.835 --> 00:53:26.375
We bring a really different perspective.

00:53:26.615 --> 00:53:31.855
Even today, I think the way that we cover events is different than almost any other group out there.

00:53:32.015 --> 00:53:35.175
It's certainly not the way that traditional mainstream media is covering it

00:53:35.175 --> 00:53:39.035
because most of the time they're news bites, very short.

00:53:39.555 --> 00:53:42.575
And there are some people who are doing more space-focused news.

00:53:42.575 --> 00:53:43.875
But again, it's very much.

00:53:44.696 --> 00:53:50.536
Most of the Space News podcasts are looking to get information out quickly to get the info out.

00:53:50.736 --> 00:53:53.916
We are one of the few that does a lot of analysis.

00:53:54.136 --> 00:53:57.476
And that's something that I've been proud of because that's the kind of news

00:53:57.476 --> 00:54:00.996
coverage that I prefer to read myself on any sort of topic.

00:54:01.196 --> 00:54:03.856
And, I mean, who would have guessed it? That's why I have a PhD, right?

00:54:05.316 --> 00:54:08.116
But it is something you know

00:54:08.116 --> 00:54:10.836
it and it's and to be able to sit down and

00:54:10.836 --> 00:54:14.216
maybe ask more in-depth questions than

00:54:14.216 --> 00:54:17.376
other places have time to do you know

00:54:17.376 --> 00:54:21.656
when we're doing interviews i'm just thinking about and also interviewing people

00:54:21.656 --> 00:54:26.316
that that are very interesting but may not be considered you know quote unquote

00:54:26.316 --> 00:54:32.096
newsworthy for for whatever reason so that's always been to me being able to

00:54:32.096 --> 00:54:34.436
sort of get some really impressive,

00:54:34.936 --> 00:54:39.736
interesting interviews that we've all done over the years, that these people

00:54:39.736 --> 00:54:45.136
would otherwise not really probably show up on anything else,

00:54:45.516 --> 00:54:46.696
right? Unless it was niche.

00:54:47.016 --> 00:54:51.936
So, I'm thinking, you know, we interviewed Noah Petro, who does things with

00:54:51.936 --> 00:54:54.916
Moon, and he's still, you know, still at NASA doing things there.

00:54:55.956 --> 00:54:59.496
Mark, I think you got us a great interview we had with Nicole Stott talking

00:54:59.496 --> 00:55:03.456
about her work after astronaut life and also her life as an astronaut.

00:55:04.156 --> 00:55:09.456
It's been some really interesting things. So I really enjoy it.

00:55:09.456 --> 00:55:12.176
For me, it's always getting to talk to new and interesting people.

00:55:12.336 --> 00:55:14.356
I don't know that I would choose a favorite episode.

00:55:14.676 --> 00:55:17.936
But anytime you get to talk to someone who's really passionate about the work

00:55:17.936 --> 00:55:22.656
they do and really excited to have the opportunity to talk to a new audience

00:55:22.656 --> 00:55:25.096
about the work they do is really exciting.

00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:30.760
But also, I think my favorite moment is Exploration Flight Test 1.

00:55:30.980 --> 00:55:34.960
It was the first time I got to meet everybody in person. I think I'd seen a

00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:36.600
couple other people before. I don't remember.

00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:40.340
But that was a really nice thing. I remember going and having breakfast,

00:55:40.460 --> 00:55:41.620
and it was really fantastic.

00:55:42.260 --> 00:55:47.500
Yeah so it is it's like summer camp i mean i think that's the best the best

00:55:47.500 --> 00:55:52.200
analogy for i mean you get to do cool interesting things but then also you get

00:55:52.200 --> 00:55:57.800
to open you know new ideas and new worlds to people who otherwise might not

00:55:57.800 --> 00:56:00.160
engage with the topics and subjects that we engage with,

00:56:00.740 --> 00:56:06.320
i want to throw something in we talk about press conferences and gene your pride

00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:08.460
in talking space being represented.

00:56:09.900 --> 00:56:14.460
You know, I was there and they got to know me and they called me by name.

00:56:15.160 --> 00:56:20.100
But often it was questions that I was getting from Gene and Sawyer and Gina

00:56:20.100 --> 00:56:25.800
and haven't been to as many press conferences since Kat's come along and joined the team.

00:56:26.200 --> 00:56:29.680
But it was questions from them. And at some point here in the future,

00:56:29.680 --> 00:56:36.440
I'll give an example of questions that I ask an astronaut during the time when

00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:41.220
Discovery was about to depart for the Smithsonian.

00:56:42.080 --> 00:56:47.120
And again, it's that teamwork, which sounds so corny.

00:56:47.260 --> 00:56:51.420
Sometimes I get tired of hearing about teamwork, but it was the contributions

00:56:51.420 --> 00:56:53.800
of the team that sometimes brought the questions.

00:56:54.060 --> 00:56:57.220
And one that was a favorite, another favorite for me,

00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:03.880
on a scrub for STS-134, we had the post-scrub press conference,

00:57:04.060 --> 00:57:10.480
and I asked a question that Mike Moses ended up answering about how they could tell,

00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:17.160
how they could possibly figure out what caused the scrub and how they could

00:57:17.160 --> 00:57:18.340
come up with a workaround.

00:57:18.660 --> 00:57:24.720
And he went into probably at least a five-minute explanation of the,

00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:28.860
the approach that nasa had to

00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:32.280
dealing with you know at that

00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:35.840
point 135 shuttle launches who knew who knows

00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:40.400
how many actual launch attempts and to where they could look at the data and

00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:45.400
say yep we need to change a main engine controller and that'll take care of

00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:50.440
the problem and he just lit up with that one and i thought wow i didn't realize

00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:53.380
it but i asked a question that had some meet on it.

00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:58.880
And, you know, it was, again, the team, but it was those opportunities to be in there.

00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:03.580
And it helped with, at the time, I was three hours away, and everybody else

00:58:03.580 --> 00:58:05.440
was halfway across the country.

00:58:05.700 --> 00:58:08.900
So by default, I became a

00:58:09.309 --> 00:58:13.189
one of those people that was there for a lot of those last few shuttle launches.

00:58:14.069 --> 00:58:17.089
And then when I moved down to Florida later, originally Tallahassee,

00:58:17.169 --> 00:58:19.429
now South Florida, it was the same thing.

00:58:19.749 --> 00:58:25.789
I think all of us had that same moment of when the person in the press conference calls you by name.

00:58:26.249 --> 00:58:31.649
Something about that moment that just makes you feel really good inside and

00:58:31.649 --> 00:58:36.569
knowing that we're up there with some of these biggest names in the history

00:58:36.569 --> 00:58:40.129
of NASA and space media journalists,

00:58:40.369 --> 00:58:42.449
and they're calling us by name.

00:58:42.889 --> 00:58:46.709
There's something about that that's just still so cool to this day.

00:58:46.909 --> 00:58:50.309
And the fact that again, we can go hang out and talk with George Diller when

00:58:50.309 --> 00:58:52.849
he was before he retired from NASA.

00:58:53.409 --> 00:58:57.469
It's just the press conferences is a whole different ballgame.

00:58:57.609 --> 00:59:01.969
And I know, at least when I was there, I tried to make it as much of a team effort as possible.

00:59:02.149 --> 00:59:06.609
Gene, I'm sure you can count on can't count on two hands the number of times

00:59:06.609 --> 00:59:09.309
I was in a press conference, I'm like, hey, anything you want me to ask?

00:59:09.969 --> 00:59:15.169
Yeah. And, and yeah, and I would perhaps fire a couple of ideas out.

00:59:15.409 --> 00:59:23.249
And lo and behold, you try to put the nonsense that I would write into a coherent

00:59:23.249 --> 00:59:29.729
sentence and, and go ahead and, and, and ask, and you'd do it a heck of a lot more elegantly than,

00:59:29.929 --> 00:59:32.949
or phrase it a heck of a lot more elegantly than I did.

00:59:32.949 --> 00:59:35.809
And that's the whole point.

00:59:36.129 --> 00:59:41.409
One of the things I try to say is we don't want to leave anybody just simply out there.

00:59:41.709 --> 00:59:47.409
You know, I try to we try to talk to each other when we're thanks thanks to technology.

00:59:47.409 --> 00:59:51.809
And we try to help each other other out when we're when somebody is on site

00:59:51.809 --> 00:59:58.369
and at least try to help and give a little bit of insight to to what what we're seeing.

00:59:58.489 --> 01:00:03.309
And perhaps maybe we can help them out with some questions. And just so our listeners know,

01:00:03.469 --> 01:00:08.089
I think we should back up a little bit because I've got something to say about

01:00:08.089 --> 01:00:12.869
the whole process of even getting to the point where you can be in on one of

01:00:12.869 --> 01:00:13.889
those press conferences.

01:00:13.889 --> 01:00:18.289
It takes a lot of work, a lot of coordination, a lot of emails,

01:00:18.749 --> 01:00:23.589
a lot of trying to convince the right person at the press office that you deserve

01:00:23.589 --> 01:00:27.009
to be there and overcoming a lot of, you know.

01:00:27.769 --> 01:00:30.749
Institutional bias against podcasters sometimes.

01:00:31.329 --> 01:00:36.269
And then just getting into that room is a tough thing.

01:00:36.369 --> 01:00:42.709
And with most podcasts, including this one, you're not getting paid to do any

01:00:42.709 --> 01:00:45.229
of that stuff. You're doing it just because you like it.

01:00:45.569 --> 01:00:48.289
And that's what I think a lot of people don't realize is that,

01:00:48.349 --> 01:00:49.709
you know, we're doing this podcast.

01:00:50.029 --> 01:00:52.949
Nobody's making a dime on it. It's costing us money.

01:00:53.209 --> 01:00:57.409
It's costing us money every time we, you know, not that I've been there yet,

01:00:57.509 --> 01:01:04.029
but go to Cape Kennedy or any place they would go to try to cover a launch in person.

01:01:04.189 --> 01:01:07.889
That's all coming out of our pockets. And we do it because we love it.

01:01:08.633 --> 01:01:13.393
That was a very not surprising thing that I learned when I came aboard,

01:01:13.413 --> 01:01:20.713
but just it was eye opening in terms of just how long everything takes and how much work it is.

01:01:20.893 --> 01:01:23.673
And again, not getting paid for it.

01:01:24.393 --> 01:01:27.773
If I can, just for one second, there's a story that I kind of mentioned earlier

01:01:27.773 --> 01:01:29.593
that I definitely wanted to talk about.

01:01:30.153 --> 01:01:34.213
And it involves you, Mark. While we were talking about the fact that we weren't

01:01:34.213 --> 01:01:37.253
local, I at the time lived in New Jersey.

01:01:38.113 --> 01:01:41.373
And i was coming down for the sts 130

01:01:41.373 --> 01:01:44.253
launch and i remember i

01:01:44.253 --> 01:01:47.513
flew down both my parents came with me and one

01:01:47.513 --> 01:01:51.153
day i told them oh i'm going to meet you meet a bunch of friends at a restaurant

01:01:51.153 --> 01:01:56.553
for dinner and they went are you crazy you're meeting strangers on the internet

01:01:56.553 --> 01:02:02.373
how do you know them from twitter there is no way you're going i'm like really

01:02:02.373 --> 01:02:04.813
yeah this is 2010 so i was 15 16.

01:02:05.673 --> 01:02:09.293
And they're like nope not letting you do it i'm like but but mom

01:02:09.293 --> 01:02:11.993
you know and i told him

01:02:11.993 --> 01:02:15.133
that mark was going to be there they're like all right fine we'll go but we're

01:02:15.133 --> 01:02:21.473
coming with you i said all right fine and so sure enough the first time that

01:02:21.473 --> 01:02:27.593
i ever met anyone from talking space was mark at a restaurant called dixie crossroads

01:02:27.593 --> 01:02:32.573
in titusville florida my parents came along with They literally sat at a table

01:02:32.573 --> 01:02:34.773
a couple of seats away from us.

01:02:34.873 --> 01:02:38.433
And I think, Mark, you and Mary ended up talking with them for a bit, too.

01:02:38.633 --> 01:02:42.093
But yeah, that was the first time I ever met someone from Talking Space was

01:02:42.093 --> 01:02:45.433
I had to drag my parents with me to a dinner before a launch.

01:02:46.173 --> 01:02:50.173
Yeah, I got to throw my perspective in on that. So here we are.

01:02:50.393 --> 01:02:55.493
We're all chums with, I don't know, half a dozen, a dozen people at this table.

01:02:56.033 --> 01:02:59.973
And and i'm sitting there and i look over and there's your your folks sitting

01:02:59.973 --> 01:03:05.053
at a table by themselves and i'm thinking they need to be in on this so i went

01:03:05.053 --> 01:03:12.473
over and i talked to them and you know just tried to kind of bring some cheer to to their party of two,

01:03:13.133 --> 01:03:18.173
and we've been friends ever since and i appreciate that greatly yeah that was

01:03:18.173 --> 01:03:22.093
the moment that my parents stopped questioning anyone i ever talked to on the

01:03:22.093 --> 01:03:25.733
internet was once they met mark in person And we're like,

01:03:26.113 --> 01:03:28.553
OK, these are actually good people.

01:03:29.793 --> 01:03:34.633
What's funny is that, you know, strangers on the Internet, that time period

01:03:34.633 --> 01:03:39.653
to a lot of my like really good friends are from like the early days of the Internet.

01:03:39.813 --> 01:03:43.853
Like I'm talking even before like the Twitter space tweets, but I'm like,

01:03:44.193 --> 01:03:47.813
those of you who may remember when we used to chat on like ICQ.

01:03:48.568 --> 01:03:54.548
Oh, my God. Yes. Like my oldest friend, like the person I have known and kept

01:03:54.548 --> 01:04:00.528
in contact with the longest is from that era of the Internet.

01:04:00.768 --> 01:04:02.968
Like we were 12, 13.

01:04:03.768 --> 01:04:08.988
Funnily enough, one of the reasons I have so many friends out at JPL because

01:04:08.988 --> 01:04:12.348
she ended up being on jury duty.

01:04:12.588 --> 01:04:17.648
She went to college in California and lived there. She was on jury duty with

01:04:17.648 --> 01:04:23.188
Scott Maxwell, who used to be the lead rover driver at JPL.

01:04:23.488 --> 01:04:27.508
And she ended up dating for a long time his friend Doug Ellison,

01:04:27.808 --> 01:04:31.908
who many of you might know if you're in the online space community.

01:04:31.908 --> 01:04:36.068
He used to run, or still does, I believe, I'm not sure, but the Unmanned Space

01:04:36.068 --> 01:04:42.688
about processing images from NASA, which actually got him a job at JPL because

01:04:42.688 --> 01:04:43.708
of the image processing.

01:04:43.848 --> 01:04:46.788
And he's now actually still there working.

01:04:46.948 --> 01:04:49.408
But a lot of them I know really well. And so it was very weird.

01:04:49.528 --> 01:04:53.528
My first launch that I went to, which was Juno, was sort of like worlds colliding

01:04:53.528 --> 01:04:57.828
because I had known Doug and Scott not through my space stuff,

01:04:57.908 --> 01:04:58.968
but through my friend Mary.

01:04:59.828 --> 01:05:03.128
And then suddenly like my friend Mary which

01:05:03.128 --> 01:05:06.508
was like another part of my internet life was then meeting my internet

01:05:06.508 --> 01:05:11.728
spaced life so it was just very interesting that that was a you know that was

01:05:11.728 --> 01:05:17.568
an interesting time on the internet where I don't think that yes we had parents

01:05:17.568 --> 01:05:21.208
who worried about strangers on the internet or things like that but a lot of

01:05:21.208 --> 01:05:26.068
my really good friends are friends I either met on ICQ way,

01:05:26.188 --> 01:05:29.248
way back in the day from like message boards,

01:05:29.388 --> 01:05:33.608
basically the easy boards that then went to instant messaging or people that

01:05:33.608 --> 01:05:35.708
I met on Twitter, you know?

01:05:35.868 --> 01:05:40.488
So it's just a very interesting, it was an interesting time of the internet

01:05:40.488 --> 01:05:45.488
that, I don't know, it's just not the same anymore, but yeah,

01:05:45.488 --> 01:05:46.828
I'm grateful for it because,

01:05:47.168 --> 01:05:51.468
you know, a good majority of my friends i met first as strangers on the internet

01:05:51.468 --> 01:05:55.328
you know half of my friend guest list more than half of my friend guest list

01:05:55.328 --> 01:05:59.628
when i got married was internet stranger friends and hey i married a stranger

01:05:59.628 --> 01:06:01.928
from the internet so there we go.

01:06:05.213 --> 01:06:07.773
A stranger that is no longer a stranger.

01:06:10.033 --> 01:06:14.993
I'm just glad that we can dissuade your parents, Sawyer, and that they know

01:06:14.993 --> 01:06:21.613
that we're on the up and up, and you're part of this extended family we have.

01:06:23.133 --> 01:06:28.293
Oh, yeah. No, they're aware of it now, and they're aware of the wild circus that we run.

01:06:29.973 --> 01:06:35.333
Hey i gotta i gotta tell you a uh a fun one about your mom sawyer and you've

01:06:35.333 --> 01:06:39.253
probably heard this before but i'm down at kennedy this might have been 2011

01:06:39.253 --> 01:06:45.833
or 12 and i had her phone number and so i sent her a text what size shirt does

01:06:45.833 --> 01:06:49.213
sawyer wear and she replied who is this.

01:06:53.833 --> 01:07:00.073
I'm picturing it now yep yeah so uh you know there was still some caution there

01:07:00.073 --> 01:07:05.413
but once i identified myself uh i got your shirt size and picked up the first

01:07:05.413 --> 01:07:11.113
uh souvenir for you from one of the ksc gift shops they still get so happy whenever

01:07:11.113 --> 01:07:13.093
i mention you're going to be at a launch that I'm at.

01:07:14.453 --> 01:07:17.693
Oh, yeah. That scrub that, which one was it?

01:07:19.133 --> 01:07:22.553
Delta 4 Heavy. Not too long ago.

01:07:23.333 --> 01:07:27.513
Yeah. Or one of those. Yeah. Yeah. Got to see your dad. Got to see your dad

01:07:27.513 --> 01:07:32.153
for, oh, 10 or 15 minutes until they announced the scrub and everybody took off.

01:07:33.853 --> 01:07:37.773
Yeah. I think Mark is everyone's favorite on my podcast.

01:07:38.393 --> 01:07:43.133
I just feel like that's true. Like, he's even the favorite of Sawyer's parents.

01:07:45.300 --> 01:07:50.040
No offense to anyone else on the team, but yeah. I think also just because that

01:07:50.040 --> 01:07:53.940
was who my parents met first, and they must be like, oh, everyone's like that.

01:07:54.480 --> 01:08:00.000
Yeah. No, Mark is just like our calm, steady podcast dad.

01:08:01.240 --> 01:08:06.160
The voice of reason. What was that show? Do you remember? What is the name?

01:08:06.240 --> 01:08:08.980
Mr. Feeney? He's like our Mr. Feeney from Boy Meets World.

01:08:12.640 --> 01:08:16.340
Well, he was always my older, wiser cousin as well.

01:08:16.620 --> 01:08:21.960
So I feel the same way. I appreciate all the praise, but I got to tell you,

01:08:22.780 --> 01:08:28.000
too many times or more times than I can recall, I was interviewing people,

01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:32.980
you know, face to face with my fancy dancy recorder and I forgot to press record.

01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:48.460
Happens to the best of us, bud. Happens to the best of us. Music Music Music Music Music.

01:08:40.240 --> 01:08:52.080
Music.

01:08:52.140 --> 01:08:57.660
Well, I think that's a good place to leave it for part one of our Talking Space Retrospective.

01:08:57.800 --> 01:09:03.320
We really had a lot of fun with this episode and had so much to talk about that

01:09:03.320 --> 01:09:06.840
it stretched on long enough that there'll be a part two.

01:09:06.840 --> 01:09:11.620
We really had a good time with this episode talking and reminiscing,

01:09:11.900 --> 01:09:14.380
and we hope it was entertaining for you as well.

01:09:14.720 --> 01:09:20.680
Big thank you to Gene Mikulka, Mark Ratterman, Sawyer Rosenstein, and Kat Robison.

01:09:20.980 --> 01:09:24.840
Join us next time for part two of our Talking Space retrospective.

01:09:24.720 --> 01:09:48.548
Music.