Episode 1614: Talking Space Retrospective, Part 2

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Music.

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Hi, everyone. Larry here. Welcome back to Talking Space.

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This is part two of a special episode recorded more than a year ago,

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where we discuss something that's become quite relevant to the Talking Space

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podcast today, as it turns out.

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You'll hear in this episode about how

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sometimes our show takes unexpected breaks how

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sometimes we just get tired you know and also

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life has this funny way of throwing curveballs at us and those are the times

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we're incredibly grateful we've got our amazing team to lean on and of course

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we have you our wonderful listeners also well it turns out we were pretty spot

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on timing wise and releasing this episode now,

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because we happen to be entering one of those periods right now.

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It looks like we'll be taking a bit of a breather from talking space,

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at least through the holiday season.

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But don't worry, though, if something major happens in the space world that

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we just can't ignore, we'll be right back here to chat about it, I'm sure.

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But in the meantime, here's a little request. Please don't forget about us during this hiatus.

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Stay subscribed to the podcast so you'll be the first to know when we're back

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on the air in the new year.

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We promise it will be worth the wait.

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We want to thank you for your understanding and your continued support.

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We couldn't do this without you.

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So now let's dive into part two of the Talking Space Retrospective.

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So Gene, another question I had that maybe you or Sawyer can probably best answer

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is what role has audience feedback played in shaping the podcast, if any role?

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Oh, boy. Well, we do announce at the end of the show, most times,

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that we want to hear from our audience.

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I don't know if, you know, there were a few folks that had decided to send MP3s in.

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And for folks that have done that, we've gone ahead and we've played those at

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the end as part of the show.

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And we still encourage that. But I think the audience feedback goes in line

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with the previous question as far as trying to anticipate what they're looking for.

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And we've tried to adapt. We've tried to go ahead and hear what's going on out

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there and try to tailor the show to that kind of thing.

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But as far as as actual audience feedback, we're trying to encourage it.

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We don't unfortunately, we don't get a lot.

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But but and we'd like to see more of it because we want to talk and talk to folks.

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I think one of our early shows, we actually had sort of like a call in kind

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of thing during that first year.

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And I'd love to try that again for that.

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Yeah, I'd love to try that again because we had I think Neil Weiser was was

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was kind of helping us out a little bit with that. and he kind of got the software together.

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Mark was playing the call screen on that one.

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Look at july of 2010 yeah i mean

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that's why i was looking at 2009 but yeah

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i i remember that episode vividly with the yeah

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a program that no longer exists that's for

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sure yeah it was it

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was hysterical i the software you loved it though

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the software doesn't exist okay right yeah

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i don't know the episode is still available you said

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it was july yeah wow yeah that was ironically around the same time as the uh

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saturn 5 s1c stage story that you just talked about it was the same era yeah

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i see that oh there we go yes it was called uh twalk in yes i am.

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And so i say i get most of you know i do get feedback here and there but most

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of it's on social media and most of it is people disagreeing with something

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i've said oh i could go there too No,

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I tried not to. I have money.

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That goes without saying. As long as it's not trolling, I'm happy to hear what people have to say.

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If you're just being rude, then I'm not going to listen to what you have to say.

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But I also think that we go through spurts and stuff, but we do get a decent

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amount of messages, like either messages on Facebook or messages on Twitter

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that people will say something, or sometimes they'll share something that we haven't heard.

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We've even had a few guests, you know, potential guests reach out that are doing,

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especially some people who were doing cool science at NASA that maybe aren't

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the big name, you know, programs.

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We've had a few of them reach out actually and say, hey.

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I'd be interested in coming to talk about my program, which is kind of a cool

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thing that people know that they can come to us and have a space.

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Well, let me just say that if there's anyone listening that wants to do that

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at NASA, feel free to send us an email, mailbag at talkingspace.com.

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We'd be happy to hear from you.

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Talkingspaceonline.com. Yeah, talkingspaceonline.com. That's a whole other story

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about the person. Oh, don't get me started.

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Oh, please. We've been trying for 15 years. Trust me.

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Yeah. And he's still asking like, you know, $10,000 for the darn thing.

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And we're just saying, okay, fine, you can eat it.

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But the, I mean, as far as audience feedback is concerned, Kat,

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yeah, I guess you and I can probably swap some stories.

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I have a few people who I call my own professor Moriarty's who are just kind

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of, I mean, I'm not going to go in there because it's going to open up a can of worms.

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But it's a bunch of folks who happen to have some sort of following with a certain

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launch service provider. And I'm not going to go into the whys and wherefores.

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And it's becoming even more so because Larry and I have been talking about some

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of their fun things that they're up to.

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And, Larry, you're getting a taste of what I've had now for the past few years, unfortunately.

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Yeah, but, you know, that's okay.

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You know, you just got to keep in

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mind that, you know, facts is facts and everything else is just opinions.

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Hey, it comes with the territory. You know, if you're willing to put yourself

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out there and you're willing to go ahead and talk to people that,

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you know, that may not have the opinions or, or, or have the facts for certain things.

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And, you know, folks just want to say, Hey, you know, okay, fine.

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I substitute, you know, reality and put my own in and, you know, that kind of thing.

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So it's all good. It comes with this territory.

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Yeah. One thing that I think that I really like about the podcast is that.

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We are always willing to not only recognize when companies or governments do

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things right, but we also have no problem holding people accountable and saying,

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like, hey, this should be better.

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Or this is what should happen. Or sharing of those concerns.

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And I think sometimes people only hear the negative when, in fact,

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I think that, and we have gotten feedback to this extent before as well from

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the audience, is we do have a relatively balanced view.

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And sometimes I think that can get lost because some

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you know just like you know I teach

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right because I'm at a university you will

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sometimes just get the feedback from people who are upset you know

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you don't hear the happy feedback you don't hear the positive feedback but we

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have had that you know positive review about that we do really strive to be

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balanced in our coverage and you know there have been times when we've been

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critical of one company or another but we are always, I think,

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one of the podcasters are also happy to celebrate when those companies or those

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governments are doing really well too.

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Kat, I'm going to concur because you just tickled my brain with something.

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There was a PAO from then Orbital ATK, and she basically said,

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you know, we listen to you guys and we think you're, you know,

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you could be tough sometimes, but you can also be very fair.

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And I thought that was a high praise indeed coming from somebody like that.

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Actually, one of the episodes I remember recording most is that when we did

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that episode with the resupply mission that had the catastrophic anomaly.

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I was actually visiting my best friend in San Diego at the time,

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but we all got together and did sort of a really quick reaction to that.

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And, yeah, being able to have that reputation that, yeah, we're going to ask

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the tough questions and we're going to explore those topics,

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but we're going to be fair in the way that we explore them because,

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you know, we recognize that there's going to be success and failure in the industry.

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And that's sort of a necessary part of moving it forward.

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I agree. that reminds me of yeah there

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were a couple of times where we had to do these quick episodes

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because of some big major development i remember

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orb three oh good god sawyer i was

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about you know larry if you came to one of my favorite episodes

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i was going to say that because i mean

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one of the few launches that i ever slept through because i was like oh it's

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just another resupply mission it's fine i was in college i had classes all morning

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i was exhausted I took a nap I woke up saw the text of like you know we need

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to get recording now like what happened and then I watched the replay and went oh.

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Oh, yeah, we need to record now. All right, you guys, here's where I plead my

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ignorance. So what happened? Was it an explosion on the pad or what?

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We lost Antares. It made it about five seconds into flight, I think.

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Okay. Yeah, and then. So basically on the pad.

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Right. And then the NK-33AK, the AJ-26 engine, failed on Antares,

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and the whole thing just exploded.

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I was standing outside my home in the driveway because you could actually see

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some of the launches at night from here in New Jersey, from Virginia.

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And I was waiting there. I had the binos. It was all set.

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And I had the audio feed going from NASA television.

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And all of a sudden, things went dead.

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And I heard this bang. And I'm like, did we just lose the bird?

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And I, cause I wasn't, I wasn't looking at the screen when it happened.

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Cause I was, I was poised and waiting for the thing to come over the horizon.

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And it, I mean, I said, we lost the bird.

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And I just immediately ran in and said, Hey, we got to start talking.

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We got to, we got to get online now. And as we were talking,

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literally, NASA television was showing the smoldering ashes in and around pad zero A.

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And we were trying to ascertain what was going on. I think we got on after the

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press conference had occurred, and we gave out the telephone number for folks

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if they found debris and all that.

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But I was so darn proud of this team because we reacted fast,

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and we got the information out there as quickly as possible.

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And that was a rough week because, if you recall, that was also the same week

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we lost Michael Allsbury on the VSS Enterprise. We lost him on,

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on Halloween in 2014. Yep.

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That was the first one that we had hopped on the air for as an emergency.

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Then we hopped on the second one.

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And then I think what was probably the most painful was a lot of the experiments that flew on Orb 3.

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They obviously, they lost the experiment. So those that had the money to be

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able to rebuild them did.

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And they said, we'll give you a free ride on SpaceX instead.

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That'll be CRS-7. Oops.

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Also failed, except about a minute and a half into flight.

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It entirely blew up so there were teams and

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then i ended up going to the i that was

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what actually drove me to go to the first iss research and

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development conference it was in boston that year and i lived in new jersey

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so it wasn't too far their main speaker was elon musk before he was as big a

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deal as he is now he was still a big deal in the space industry so i'm like

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oh my gosh i got to hear him speak because this was two weeks after the explosion

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something very close to it and And then,

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of course, a lot of the people that were there were people that had experiments on both missions,

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Orb-3, and then they chose to refly on CRS-7.

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And just hearing them talk, that was something I'll also never forget,

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and also a really good episode that I think back on.

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I also just, I think that the Cygnus really sticks in my head,

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too, because what was very interesting about Cygnus is because that pad became

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unusable for so long and they weren't able to fly Antares.

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Is that Cygnus had been designed with interoperability,

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which was a really fantastic thing because then additional missions were able

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to go up on the Atlas rocket from ULA,

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which while the loss of the mission and the damage and the issues with the rockets

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were of course unfortunate, it was just such a great example of the importance

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of having interoperability.

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And that redundancy is a conversation we have a lot on the podcast,

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right? We talk about the importance.

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Even when we're going through, you know, in recent times, looking at contracts

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for a moon landing, right? And contracts for that.

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And I know one of our concerns is like, you're just going to issue a sole development

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contract? That's really dangerous.

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Because what about redundancy? And we've seen, you know, even with the commercial

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development that we still need that redundancy.

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We've seen it in commercial cargo, We've seen it in commercial crew.

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So the fact that, you know.

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That it's been demonstrated the importance to have redundancy in something that

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we've long had a topic of the podcast allows us to sort of follow the trajectory

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of these developments with more insight, right?

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Because we can talk about, hey, we've covered this. We know the importance of redundancy.

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So when we make an argument to continue to have redundancy, it's not just,

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you know, hate or dislike or anything.

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It's not to do with the companies who are bidding. it's actually our

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long experience in covering the space industry in

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this way that we know the importance of these

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things because unfortunately accidents happen

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and they happen you know more often than any of us would

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like so you have to be prepared for it and i'm

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just by the way i just want to point out how full circle this has all come so

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we followed everything from the orb missions

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when it was orbital science and that after that

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failure they had to move at that point they became orbital atk so

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oa4 which i think gene and i were at originally

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for the first attempt at least was atlas 5

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then they got the upgraded antaris which i know gene you've been to and then

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they ran out of the rd 181 engines because they're russian engines and a lot

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of the factory for the materials are in ukraine and now it's going to be flying

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on spacex after all that on a falcon nine.

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So three, or I guess, honestly, with how different they were,

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four different vehicles for that.

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So the brilliance of redundancy and the fact that we'll have covered and we'll

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continue to be covering all of these different iterations and why it's so important

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that in 14 years on four different vehicles, we're covering it every time.

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And this is also part of, you know, to even bring that into out of the technical

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realm and into, you know, the political negotiation realm One of the points

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of NASA's Artemis Accords,

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the bilateral agreements that seek to operationalize things like the Outer Space

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Treaty and other things, is to set standards for interoperability in deep space missions.

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Because as we know, they're very expensive and really most nations are not going

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to be able to afford to do any deep space missions on their own.

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So there has to be a standard of redundancy and interoperability.

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And so these aren't just technical conversations. These come into agreement,

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diplomatic negotiations as well. So it's an important concept.

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I'm just smiling and nodding my head because you guys just stole my thunder. Thank you.

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I'm glad you did because I'm, you know, it's, and again, I'll add that Germany

00:17:36.335 --> 00:17:37.975
recently signed the Artemis Accords.

00:17:38.175 --> 00:17:43.935
And again, as Kat was talking about interoperability, she's not the only one talking about it.

00:17:44.075 --> 00:17:47.375
Another gentleman that you might've heard about by the name of Jim Bridenstine

00:17:47.375 --> 00:17:50.235
is also a big champion of that.

00:17:50.395 --> 00:17:53.615
And when we go to a real show, we'll, well, not a real show,

00:17:53.655 --> 00:17:56.775
but when we go to our usual format. I'll get into that more in depth.

00:17:58.015 --> 00:18:01.115
Just an interesting note, I think, for sort of retrospective.

00:18:01.395 --> 00:18:05.595
When Jim Bridenstine was first appointed, we were a bit skeptical, right?

00:18:05.995 --> 00:18:11.595
But he ended up being an excellent administrator of NASA. And I think we all,

00:18:11.715 --> 00:18:13.735
you know, we acknowledged that and said that on the show.

00:18:14.015 --> 00:18:17.255
So it's just, you know, interesting as we look back at things,

00:18:17.395 --> 00:18:19.355
you know, mentioning Jim Bridenstine.

00:18:19.475 --> 00:18:22.735
And I remember the conversations we had about it And then saying like,

00:18:22.855 --> 00:18:27.395
hey, it's really interesting how NASA tends to affect the people who lead it

00:18:27.395 --> 00:18:29.755
rather than always the other way around.

00:18:29.975 --> 00:18:33.375
Right. They sort of get into the NASA mindset. And it's a very interesting,

00:18:33.575 --> 00:18:34.895
interesting thing that happens.

00:18:35.115 --> 00:18:38.235
I actually miss Jim, but that's a whole other story.

00:18:38.795 --> 00:18:42.655
My big thing, though, is I think that brings us to a good point.

00:18:42.795 --> 00:18:45.415
Obviously, over the course of as long as we've been on the air,

00:18:45.575 --> 00:18:49.475
we're going to get things wrong. And I think that's the big thing is all the

00:18:49.475 --> 00:18:56.015
people who are passionate, I guess we'll say, about specific companies.

00:18:57.155 --> 00:19:01.815
We admit when we're wrong. We thought Bridenstine, who had no experience in

00:19:01.815 --> 00:19:04.075
the game, had no idea what he was doing.

00:19:04.075 --> 00:19:10.195
And it turns out he did a lot for NASA. I remember early on when SpaceX announced,

00:19:10.415 --> 00:19:14.975
oh, we're going to be landing boosters on drone ships in the ocean and be able

00:19:14.975 --> 00:19:19.695
to bring them back and then in a couple days, you know, reuse and refly again.

00:19:19.935 --> 00:19:23.375
Like, that's never going to happen. There's no way that there's going to be

00:19:23.375 --> 00:19:28.875
any success when it comes to landing a booster back and then refurbishing it,

00:19:28.975 --> 00:19:32.215
especially out in the middle of the ocean. It's ridiculous.

00:19:32.455 --> 00:19:36.715
There's no way that's going to work ever. And now their turnaround time between

00:19:36.715 --> 00:19:39.975
launches is three days, and all of them are on reflown boosters.

00:19:40.956 --> 00:19:43.696
We were wrong i remember admitting how wrong i

00:19:43.696 --> 00:19:47.196
was and how glad i was that i was wrong but i

00:19:47.196 --> 00:19:50.056
was one of our one of my bigger faux pas of

00:19:50.056 --> 00:19:52.796
the 14 years we've been on of things that i thought would

00:19:52.796 --> 00:19:56.616
never happen and did wasn't there one launch there

00:19:56.616 --> 00:19:59.916
was one launch wasn't there were there were they they successfully

00:19:59.916 --> 00:20:02.876
landed three of them two of

00:20:02.876 --> 00:20:05.956
the three yeah they've been trying for three with falcon heavy

00:20:05.956 --> 00:20:08.996
but okay i was at that first falcon heavy demo

00:20:08.996 --> 00:20:11.916
flight i'm trying to remember mark if you were there as well but

00:20:11.916 --> 00:20:15.216
i know i was there and to see two boosters

00:20:15.216 --> 00:20:17.936
landing side by side almost simultaneously for the

00:20:17.936 --> 00:20:22.276
first time in history it's crazy unbelievable and i'll be honest i've seen it

00:20:22.276 --> 00:20:25.976
probably three or four more times and it still doesn't get old and you may be

00:20:25.976 --> 00:20:29.836
seeing it again in a couple of weeks i will be yeah yeah with with the psyche

00:20:29.836 --> 00:20:34.276
mission so that's one of my bucket list things is i haven't seen a booster landing

00:20:34.276 --> 00:20:37.096
so i really would like to see that. Yeah.

00:20:38.396 --> 00:20:44.396
Just like all of you, I celebrate all of their successes. It's really fantastic to see them and succeed.

00:20:44.636 --> 00:20:50.356
But you have to also hold them accountable just in the same way that NASA and

00:20:50.356 --> 00:20:56.496
ESA and all other, especially right now in Australia, the space agency here,

00:20:56.616 --> 00:20:57.716
they need to be held accountable.

00:20:58.036 --> 00:21:02.736
But that doesn't mean we don't get just as excited and just as giddy to celebrate

00:21:02.736 --> 00:21:04.896
every time there's a success. So...

00:21:05.406 --> 00:21:13.206
For sure. So does anybody have anything else to add before I ask one more question?

00:21:14.386 --> 00:21:18.346
Other than the fact, I'm extraordinarily proud of all the work we've done.

00:21:18.706 --> 00:21:29.806
And I'm looking forward to the next few years and will continue doing it for as long as I hold out.

00:21:29.806 --> 00:21:36.186
But all I'm going to say, again, as I said from the top of this,

00:21:36.646 --> 00:21:42.726
I was just totally and completely blessed with the people that decided to be

00:21:42.726 --> 00:21:44.666
part of this little ragtag group here.

00:21:44.786 --> 00:21:48.426
And I still consider us sort of like the mouse that roared.

00:21:48.926 --> 00:21:57.906
And I'm hoping that we can continue to put together quality work the way we have the past 14 years.

00:21:57.906 --> 00:22:04.846
And I cannot think of a better group of people that I would love to do it with than the group I have.

00:22:04.986 --> 00:22:12.086
And I just feel totally blessed by having this crew of just absolutely brilliant individuals.

00:22:12.086 --> 00:22:16.406
They keep me in check, which also I'm glad they do, too, because sometimes I—

00:22:16.406 --> 00:22:23.386
Well, we love having you, Gene, our fearless visionary and leader.

00:22:24.466 --> 00:22:27.746
None of this would be here without you, Gene. All right.

00:22:28.106 --> 00:22:32.086
Speaking of which, it's been almost 15 years now.

00:22:32.346 --> 00:22:35.726
Does anybody ever gotten tired of it?

00:22:35.906 --> 00:22:39.646
I know I'll speak for myself when I say that as long as we have,

00:22:39.746 --> 00:22:45.186
you know, do successful teamwork, you know, that's what keeps my enthusiasm going.

00:22:45.366 --> 00:22:47.326
Anybody got any perspective on that?

00:22:47.926 --> 00:22:52.046
I'll be honest with you, Larry. Sometimes I have my blinders on.

00:22:52.446 --> 00:22:58.006
And when I do that, I kind of put out the rest of the world and see what they're

00:22:58.006 --> 00:23:00.466
doing. But sometimes they fall off.

00:23:01.040 --> 00:23:06.280
And I look around and see all of these individuals that are getting a lot of

00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:08.940
recognition out there and all of that.

00:23:09.060 --> 00:23:14.900
And I sometimes wonder, and this kind of leads into some of the reasons why

00:23:14.900 --> 00:23:17.560
we've had a few hiatuses here and there.

00:23:18.020 --> 00:23:22.060
You kind of second guess yourself. You're wondering, geez, you've got all of

00:23:22.060 --> 00:23:25.000
these other individuals that have got a massive following.

00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:31.420
I mean, they're literally, because YouTube turns people into instant stars,

00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.980
I kind of wonder, you know, what are we doing?

00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:39.780
You know, how come we haven't caught fire in the same manner,

00:23:40.020 --> 00:23:42.000
say, some of these other YouTubers have?

00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:48.420
And it kind of makes you wonder, you know, are you just banging your head up against a wall?

00:23:48.540 --> 00:23:53.840
And sometimes, yeah, I'll admit, sometimes I need some more gas in the tank.

00:23:53.840 --> 00:24:00.420
And I actually went to a session at Podcast Movement a while back ago.

00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:02.660
I think this was the Philadelphia edition.

00:24:03.340 --> 00:24:07.020
And there was a session over there about podcast burnout.

00:24:07.020 --> 00:24:12.160
And I think it was geared more toward individuals that were on that three-year

00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:17.520
level, not the individuals that have been at this for,

00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:24.040
say, a long period of time and really needing that extra capacity.

00:24:24.473 --> 00:24:30.753
Ounce of octane to keep going. And there have been times, I'm not going to be beat around the bush.

00:24:30.893 --> 00:24:34.253
There have been times where I'm kind of wondering, why the devil am I spending

00:24:34.253 --> 00:24:38.953
all this time and treasure doing this, when I don't think, I'm wondering if

00:24:38.953 --> 00:24:42.413
we're really making a dent in the universe, as it were.

00:24:43.353 --> 00:24:46.633
And sometimes I need that reminder that indeed we are.

00:24:47.213 --> 00:24:51.493
And the conversations like the one we're having tonight kind of remind me of

00:24:51.493 --> 00:24:53.913
the fact that, yeah, we've made a dent in the universe.

00:24:54.293 --> 00:24:59.253
We were one of the early pioneers of new media.

00:24:59.713 --> 00:25:05.453
There were only a handful of new media actually allowed on site at KSC,

00:25:05.693 --> 00:25:09.673
and we were one of them. So we were fortunate for that.

00:25:10.313 --> 00:25:14.133
Yeah, well, Jane, we might not have the monetization or the massive follower

00:25:14.133 --> 00:25:19.473
counts as other podcasts, but I think we have the respects of the people within

00:25:19.473 --> 00:25:21.793
the industry, which is something that you, you know,

00:25:21.993 --> 00:25:27.413
you can always buy flashy things and you can throw a lot of money at something

00:25:27.413 --> 00:25:32.173
or have like a podcast company or someone behind you that's promoting you.

00:25:32.373 --> 00:25:36.373
But everything we've had, we have it because we've built it organically.

00:25:37.153 --> 00:25:42.753
And I think one of the wonderful things about being in the team like we are

00:25:42.753 --> 00:25:47.273
is that it allows for there to be ebbs and flows in our lives.

00:25:47.473 --> 00:25:51.473
When there's times when one of us can't be as present, there's always someone

00:25:51.473 --> 00:25:56.133
there who is willing to pick it up and say, hey, are we going to do this?

00:25:56.213 --> 00:25:59.833
A lot of times I feel like that's Mark, which is why I say he's our beloved

00:25:59.833 --> 00:26:03.333
podcast dad, our wise and Mr. Feeny mentor.

00:26:04.333 --> 00:26:09.353
But there are times that you have to take a step back and just say,

00:26:09.453 --> 00:26:11.593
I need to take a I need to take a minute.

00:26:12.153 --> 00:26:16.033
And then if you haven't been on a call for a while and you get on a call,

00:26:16.033 --> 00:26:18.413
you're like, man, it's like a reunion.

00:26:18.553 --> 00:26:20.893
I love these guys. I'm so glad that I'm here with everybody.

00:26:22.223 --> 00:26:29.883
But yeah, we've had chats over, is this something we'd like to make more professional in the past?

00:26:30.023 --> 00:26:32.503
But honestly, we do it because we love it.

00:26:32.703 --> 00:26:36.003
And that love for it, I think, gives us a lot of integrity.

00:26:36.583 --> 00:26:40.503
I remember a few years back, might have been like five, six years now,

00:26:40.663 --> 00:26:43.943
that there was talk of a very well-known publication that wanted to sort of

00:26:43.943 --> 00:26:45.863
syndicate us and bring us under their umbrella.

00:26:46.223 --> 00:26:49.663
And ultimately, the decision was that we didn't want to do that because we didn't

00:26:49.663 --> 00:26:51.883
want to lose what talking space was.

00:26:52.223 --> 00:26:57.043
And we felt like if we were to do that, we would lose, you know,

00:26:57.123 --> 00:26:59.183
what it is that makes talking space, talking space.

00:26:59.363 --> 00:27:04.363
And I think the fact that we are independent, that we've been in the business,

00:27:04.483 --> 00:27:07.943
like I've only, I've been here almost 10 years, I think 10 years next year.

00:27:08.123 --> 00:27:11.563
So, you know, not as long as 15, but still it's a long time.

00:27:12.423 --> 00:27:16.583
And, you know, we've built the reputation and we have the respect from the people

00:27:16.583 --> 00:27:21.043
who matter. And I think our listeners, you know, stay with us year after year

00:27:21.043 --> 00:27:26.963
because they know what it is that they're getting and they know the value of what they're getting.

00:27:27.323 --> 00:27:31.603
And we still have people coming to us to put their information out.

00:27:31.843 --> 00:27:35.543
And we are still covering events because we have that reputation.

00:27:35.723 --> 00:27:38.963
And I think that's, you know, that's important to me. And so,

00:27:39.103 --> 00:27:43.123
you know, that means that if I am feeling burnout, I'm going to take a step

00:27:43.123 --> 00:27:47.083
aside because I don't want to affect the reputation of the podcast.

00:27:47.843 --> 00:27:51.083
And, you know, you had asked earlier, Larry, about sort of formats.

00:27:51.343 --> 00:27:55.183
And one of the things that we've done, you know, besides responding to what

00:27:55.183 --> 00:28:00.183
listeners want with a new format, is it has made it easier for us to handle things.

00:28:00.528 --> 00:28:04.668
When team members need to take a step back for one reason or another. For sure.

00:28:05.228 --> 00:28:11.648
And I think the fact that we've taken breaks is a good indicator of, yeah, we get burnt out.

00:28:11.808 --> 00:28:18.668
Again, like I said, I edited the first almost 200 episodes before Mark and I started splitting it.

00:28:18.768 --> 00:28:21.728
And now Mark and Larry have helped take over the editing portion.

00:28:22.488 --> 00:28:26.368
But I think the most significant part of all that is, yes, we took breaks,

00:28:26.588 --> 00:28:28.948
but the show always came back.

00:28:29.548 --> 00:28:31.168
We couldn't stay away from it.

00:28:31.988 --> 00:28:36.188
Regardless, we all decided we're a family here. We want to come back.

00:28:36.348 --> 00:28:37.668
We want to keep putting out the product.

00:28:37.928 --> 00:28:41.528
It gave us a chance each time to kind of rethink the show.

00:28:41.668 --> 00:28:44.308
And like we were talking about before, if the audience evolves,

00:28:44.608 --> 00:28:48.968
each time was a chance for us to evolve as well and make it back into something

00:28:48.968 --> 00:28:52.768
that we loved doing as much as we do at this moment.

00:28:53.768 --> 00:28:57.548
Hey, Kat, I'm going to play back that once this gets published,

00:28:57.808 --> 00:29:02.208
I'm going to play back your comments and I'm going to keep it on a loop for

00:29:02.208 --> 00:29:06.268
when I have that burnout moment.

00:29:06.268 --> 00:29:12.468
And just as a subtle reminder that we have indeed built a reputation out there

00:29:12.468 --> 00:29:16.408
for accuracy at least and for integrity.

00:29:16.788 --> 00:29:22.868
And that's something that not a lot of organizations can boast.

00:29:23.368 --> 00:29:29.308
And this is a small, again, this is a small fly on the seam of your pants group,

00:29:29.308 --> 00:29:35.368
but we've done rather big miracles in that department.

00:29:36.268 --> 00:29:40.728
Gene, I promise I'll always be here for your positive affirmation. Thank you.

00:29:42.068 --> 00:29:46.028
And Gene, if I have one more thing to add to that, that if you ever start to

00:29:46.028 --> 00:29:50.548
get to the point where you're, you know, fretting over lack of tens or hundreds

00:29:50.548 --> 00:29:51.768
of thousands of listeners.

00:29:52.648 --> 00:29:57.948
Somebody at a podcast conference that I went to just this year was talking about

00:29:57.948 --> 00:30:03.808
how if you fret over the fact that, oh, I only have 1,000 listeners or,

00:30:03.948 --> 00:30:07.788
oh, I only have 400 listeners or 200 listeners, well, here's what you do.

00:30:07.968 --> 00:30:13.108
You picture them being people in the same room as you are, sitting in an audience

00:30:13.108 --> 00:30:20.988
listening to you talk, and then decide for yourself, now, is that a worthy number of people or not?

00:30:20.988 --> 00:30:25.588
You know, 200 people sitting there listening to you talk, a thousand people, it's,

00:30:26.419 --> 00:30:31.779
Makes a difference. Yeah, we've been talking about some of the ups and downs in life.

00:30:31.899 --> 00:30:35.779
And I remember a few times I've made the statement that life gets in the way.

00:30:36.939 --> 00:30:43.799
And oftentimes, missing things that are on social media, I don't know what's

00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:46.279
going on with the rest of the gang.

00:30:46.979 --> 00:30:51.139
And this brings to mind a quote from George Bernard Shaw.

00:30:51.739 --> 00:30:56.539
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:02.559
And I got to say that I couldn't tell you how many times somebody has popped

00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:06.259
out an email with the subject line of TS next.

00:31:07.059 --> 00:31:13.579
And all of a sudden, what seems like a time where everybody has gone to sleep

00:31:13.579 --> 00:31:18.739
and taken a month or more long nap, all of a sudden, boom, we're back on again.

00:31:18.739 --> 00:31:24.239
And I got to say that it's the communication, even though we've had gaps at

00:31:24.239 --> 00:31:28.659
times, it's the communication that we're always willing to restart and share

00:31:28.659 --> 00:31:32.479
that has kept us going, along with the subject matter.

00:31:33.239 --> 00:31:36.859
Not to slight that. Oh, yeah, right.

00:31:37.179 --> 00:31:40.619
That just makes me, I'm just giggling because I'm just thinking it took until

00:31:40.619 --> 00:31:44.419
last year or this year for us all to get on a group chat together.

00:31:46.579 --> 00:31:49.659
Like we have tried like multiple times

00:31:49.659 --> 00:31:52.439
together like and we've had like the occasional thread when we're

00:31:52.439 --> 00:31:56.459
all at an event you know but we

00:31:56.459 --> 00:31:59.539
just now in the last year have a group chat

00:31:59.539 --> 00:32:02.579
which is you know just it just

00:32:02.579 --> 00:32:06.479
makes me like smile and giggle and just it's

00:32:06.479 --> 00:32:09.219
very endearing that it took us this long but it's

00:32:09.219 --> 00:32:12.899
nice now that we have it which i think has also improved our communication very

00:32:12.899 --> 00:32:20.979
much so yep well what do you think shall we call it an episode or two episodes

00:32:20.979 --> 00:32:27.399
or whatever this turns out to be before we do i just want to mention some fun facts here okay,

00:32:28.139 --> 00:32:33.999
up until this point we have now released over 300 episodes okay,

00:32:34.971 --> 00:32:38.751
All-time downloads. So the number of times that Talking Space episodes have

00:32:38.751 --> 00:32:44.551
been downloaded total is almost 270,000 times.

00:32:45.091 --> 00:32:50.771
And Talking Space has been listened to on every single continent.

00:32:51.191 --> 00:32:55.311
Years ago, there was a listen from Antarctica. So we have been listened to on

00:32:55.311 --> 00:32:56.371
every single continent.

00:32:57.551 --> 00:33:02.791
Very cool. That's us, people. We've made an impact somehow. That's for sure.

00:33:02.791 --> 00:33:07.431
I just need to confirm, we need to get ourselves listened to on the space station

00:33:07.431 --> 00:33:11.771
so we can be like, everywhere there's been a human presence, we've been listened to.

00:33:12.351 --> 00:33:14.211
There you go. That would be nice.

00:33:15.511 --> 00:33:19.651
So if you're an astronaut listening and you've happened or a cosmonaut,

00:33:19.891 --> 00:33:26.971
or even if you're a taikonaut and you've listened to it on the Chinese National Lab, please let us know.

00:33:26.971 --> 00:33:31.991
So we'd like to be able to make the claim all continents and human presence

00:33:31.991 --> 00:33:33.891
outside in the Earth urban.

00:33:34.091 --> 00:33:40.671
Axiom 1 and 2, if Axiom 3 wants to take an episode up with them, we're game.

00:33:41.451 --> 00:33:44.111
We're here for that. Very good.

00:33:45.131 --> 00:33:51.951
So with that said, this is Larry Herron, and I'd like to thank our full roster

00:33:51.951 --> 00:33:54.391
of panelists tonight. Gene Mikulka.

00:33:55.291 --> 00:33:59.571
It's been fun. Mark Ratterman? Don't get no better than this.

00:34:00.031 --> 00:34:04.771
There you go. Sawyer Rosenstein? When you're here, you're family.

00:34:05.031 --> 00:34:07.791
And this is a lot better bang for your buck than Olive Garden.

00:34:08.931 --> 00:34:13.011
Dr. Kat Robison? Thanks for coming to our Campfire Chat.

00:34:14.211 --> 00:34:18.491
Very good. So, everyone, thank you very much for listening.

00:34:18.831 --> 00:34:22.251
Again, if you want to get in touch with us about anything, You can reach us

00:34:22.251 --> 00:34:32.211
at mailbag at talking space online.com and have a good rest of your day and we'll see you next time.

00:34:32.751 --> 00:34:36.051
I have to say, I feel like we can't end it unless Sawyer does his ending.

00:34:36.851 --> 00:34:42.031
I believe I started this back at like episode six or seven as a joke,

00:34:42.031 --> 00:34:46.671
because we record at night most of the time. And there was so it's like it's day.

00:34:46.871 --> 00:34:50.131
But then again, when people are listening to it across the coast,

00:34:50.551 --> 00:34:55.131
you know, it could be night, it could be day could be evening and I had no clue what to say.

00:34:55.251 --> 00:34:59.031
So I think I said this in passing, which has now become the trademark to have

00:34:59.031 --> 00:35:01.631
a great day, night, evening or whatever it is.

00:35:01.520 --> 00:35:25.988
Music.